Intestate Estate - Criminal Behavior

[TamD]

Jurisdiction

Oregon

My mother passed away without a signed Last Will and Testament and now her Estate is Intestate in the Oregon Court to be divided equally among her five children.

During the years prior to her death my mother was suffering from dementia (the last two years of her dementia is documented in a doctor's letter) and three of my four siblings (who strongly exhibit sociopathic behavior and have created a voting block) exploited her diminishing mental competence by pushing her for gifts of physical assets, large gifts of money (she borrowed over $100,000. by taking out a second mortgage on her house which we are having to pay for monthly and her entire $70,000. inheritance from our grandmother is also gone) and by coercing our mother to write a Last Will and Testament (although inaccurate and unsigned) that bequeathed themselves all of the expensive antiques and valuable family heirlooms leaving very little to the other two siblings.

All five heirs have been informed by a past attorney for the estate that our mother's cognition issues precluded her from making large gifts while in mental decline and that any gifts given to the siblings in the last two years should be returned to the estate for division. Also, under the control of the Personal Representative to our Mother's Estate many items have been removed from the estate's control, and I have been requesting that all of my siblings return the stolen items, to no avail.

The three dishonest siblings have not accepted the fact that our mother's Intestate Estate must be divided fairly and equitably among all five heirs and they have stalled the probate process until they can find an attorney who will find a way to give them the specific financially valuable assets that they claim that our mother (with documented dementia) wanted them to have...even though this would not be financially fair or equitable to the other two heirs.

One of these exploitative siblings has been designated as the Personal Representative to our Mother's Intestate Estate. I have been urging that the estate (personal tangible assets) be divided fairly and equitably using an objective third party person to run a "round-robin" division process which would allow each of the five heirs to choose one of the assets each time their turn came up. However, the three exploitative siblings have found an attorney who has agreed to help them to divide up the estate assets using a "spreadsheet" without any third party oversight, presumably so that they do not have to declare the items that they were already "gifted" or that they have already removed (stolen) from our mother's house.

I have been informed by the Oregon Yamhill County (Probate) Court Clerk that I can file to become a party on to the case (I would like to proceed Pro Se if possible) and that I need to follow a specific format or Oregon Statute in order to do this.

First Question: Could anyone please provide any suggestions on how I might find this correct format or provide me with a sample letter that would show me the precise format or Oregon Statute that my request to become a party on to the case must be in compliance with?

Second Question: Could anyone please provide me with any suggestions on how best to protect myself from the PR hiring an attorney who will place a lien against my one fifth percentage of the proceeds from the sale of the house that was left to all five heirs equally with a deed upon death (we do not have any Family Agreement in place authorizing the PR to allow an attorney to force the sale of the house or to place a lien for attorney fees and costs upon the house).

Third Question: With limited financial resources and currently residing in Kansas, how might I best protect myself and my interests during this hostile probate process?

 

[Foamback]

Pro se is probably a no go

 

[adjusterjack]

With limited financial resources and currently residing in Kansas, how might I best protect myself and my interests during this hostile probate process?

And there it is. I want the law to protect me, but I can't afford a lawyer.

Extremely common lament. We see that here every day.

The reality is that you are at the mercy of greedy siblings who were there, and are there, while you are helplessly far away.

If your mother's estate is valuable enough to cover attorney fees, hire one. If not, then take what you get and be done with the thieves.

 

[Mark_A]

I have been informed by the Oregon Yamhill County (Probate) Court Clerk that I can file to become a party on to the case (I would like to proceed Pro Se if possible) and that I need to follow a specific format or Oregon Statute in order to do this.

First Question: Could anyone please provide any suggestions on how I might find this correct format or provide me with a sample letter that would show me the precise format or Oregon Statute that my request to become a party on to the case must be in compliance with?

You should be able to find the Oregon Statutes online. Finding a specific format required by a county, and not mentioned in the probate statutes, may be more difficult, but you can try doing Internet searches. But even if you are able to proceed Pro Se, are you able and willing to travel to Oregon to appear in Court if necessary?

 

[welkin]

I have been informed by the Oregon Yamhill County (Probate) Court Clerk that I can file to become a party on to the case (I would like to proceed Pro Se if possible) and that I need to follow a specific format or Oregon Statute in order to do this.

If probate is not yet final, you can file an objection.

ORS 111.235
Filing objections to petition or motion

• Text
• Annotations

(1)

Any interested person or the personal representative may file a written objection to a petition or motion previously filed.

(2)

An objection filed under this section must:

(a)

Include a plain and concise statement of the basis for the objection;

(b)

Be served on the persons described in ORS 111.215 (Notice) (2); and

(c)

Be filed on or before the final date for the filing of objections to the petition or motion.

(3)

If no objections are filed before the final date for the filing of objections to the petition or motion, or if all filed objections are withdrawn, the court may sign the proposed order or judgment without further notice. [1969 c.591 §15; 2021 c.282 §12]

ORS Title 12 – Prob. Law

 

[TamD]

Pro se is probably a no go

Okay, thank you so much for your kindness in answering my question. I had a feeling that I might need to engage the services of legal counsel to protect my 1/5 share of the financial proceeds from the sale of our jointly owned house if the PR hires an attorney to finish the probate process who might attach a lien to it for attorney fees and costs...even though the house is not part of the the estate (Deed Upon Death) and we have no family agreement. Our mother's Intestate Estate is now effectively insolvent and the house is where the $$$ money is. My husband and I will just have to sell off a vehicle or tools, etc...so that we may hire legal counsel if needed to protect our interest in the house. Thank you, again

 

[TamD]

And there it is. I want the law to protect me, but I can't afford a lawyer.

Extremely common lament. We see that here every day.

The reality is that you are at the mercy of greedy siblings who were there, and are there, while you are helplessly far away.

If your mother's estate is valuable enough to cover attorney fees, hire one. If not, then take what you get and be done with the thieves.

Okay, thank you so much for your very kind reply. I guess the question is...could my 1/5 share of the proceeds from the sale of our mother's house (jointly owned now by all 5 heirs) be at risk if the PR if the PR hires an attorney to finish the probate process who might attach a lien to it for attorney fees and costs...even though the house is not part of the the estate (Deed Upon Death) and we have no family agreement. Our mother's Intestate Estate is now effectively insolvent and the house is where the $$$ money is. My husband and I will just have to sell off a vehicle or tools, etc...so that we may hire legal counsel if needed to protect our interest in the house. Thank you, again

 

[TamD]

You should be able to find the Oregon Statutes online. Finding a specific format required by a county, and not mentioned in the probate statutes, may be more difficult, but you can try doing Internet searches. But even if you are able to proceed Pro Se, are you able and willing to travel to Oregon to appear in Court if necessary?

Thank you so much! I will look into finding the specific Oregon Statutes online. Yes, we are able and willing to travel to Oregon to appear in Court if necessary as we have some repairs to complete on our mother's (now jointly owned by all five heirs, town home) before we can put it up for sale.

 

[TamD]

If probate is not yet final, you can file an objection.




ORS Title 12 – Prob. Law

Thank you so much for this information...I will begin reading up on this. We do have some experience with proceeding Pro Se as we were plaintiffs in a successful 1983 Civil Rights case 2002 - 2008 against four Oregon municipalities (a Monell case) in Federal Court in Lane County, in which we prevailed. We had to proceed Pro Se in Federal Court for a time until we found our dream Civil Rights Attorney Michelle Burrows (San Francisco Attorney Randy Darr called us and suggested that we call her). So, we tend to be proactive when it comes to defending our rights in the US legal system. Thank you, again!

 

[TamD]

My question is...could my 1/5 share of the proceeds from the sale of our mother's house (jointly owned now by all 5 heirs) be at risk if the PR hires an attorney to finish the probate process who might attach a lien to it for attorney fees and costs...even though the house is not part of the the estate (Deed Upon Death) and we have no family agreement? Our mother's Intestate Estate is now effectively insolvent and the house is where the $$$ money is.

 

[army judge]

My question is...could my 1/5 share of the proceeds from the sale of our mother's house (jointly owned now by all 5 heirs) be at risk if the PR hires an attorney to finish the probate process who might attach a lien to it for attorney fees and costs...even though the house is not part of the the estate (Deed Upon Death) and we have no family agreement?

In the real worldd of POSSIBILITIES, anything can happen, any day of the week, any week of the year, any year of the century.

Prepare yourself, because anything is always possible.

 

[Foamback]

What are the remaining assets of the estate if the house is not in the estate?

You are probably need to get a lawyer sooner that later. I don't see anything other than a partion to sell the property and recoup what assets you can.

Presently you and your sibs are paying a mortgage, taxes and associated costs. And your sibs may be living there. There is nothing for you to gain by keeping an ownership portion.

Partition (law) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TamD]

In the real worldd of POSSIBILITIES, anything can happen, any day of the week, any week of the year, any year of the century.

Prepare yourself, because anything is always possible.

Thank you so much...that's what I was afraid of....Life seems to unfold as if you don't prepare then you will almost certainly need it but if you do prepare then there is a good possibility that you won't need it. Seems better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[TamD]

What are the remaining assets of the estate if the house is not in the estate?

You are probably need to get a lawyer sooner that later. I don't see anything other than a partion to sell the property and recoup what assets you can.

Presently you and your sibs are paying a mortgage, taxes and associated costs. And your sibs may be living there. There is nothing for you to gain by keeping an ownership portion.

Partition (law) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As far as financial assets other than the house...very little and the Intestate Estate is now effectively Insolvent as our PR unnecessarily depleted our $30,000.00 of estate assets. However, there is a house full of antiques and family heirlooms. Our father was older when we were born and he was a WWII Army Air Corps / Air Force Bomber Pilot (Major) but inducted into the O.S.S. after the bombing of Ploesti so received a parallel? O.S.S. appointment to Lt.Colonel. Stationed in Weisbaden, Germany, Rome, Italy and Paris, France...then Chief Flight Officer for invasion of Japan "Project Javaman" and then in Korea flew air cover for U.S. Marines and was one of the "Chosin Few" then SAC and our mother was an Air Force Combat nurse and later was in Balkan War of 1991 - 1995 in Mostar and Sarajevo ...so we have a house full of antiques from all over the world. Also, our maternal Great-Grandparents were full-blood Oneida and Huron / Wyandotte Native American with a large collection of native American antiques. Those are the items my three dishonest siblings are fighting over. That is why I have been urging that the estate (personal tangible assets) be divided fairly and equitably using an objective third party person to run a "round-robin" division process which would allow each of the five heirs to choose one of the assets each time their turn came up...in the hopes of making everybody happy.

 

[Foamback]

Honestly, that sounds almost impossible to do. How would this third party even be able to guess what the real or family value of an item is?

 

[TamD]

Honestly, that sounds almost impossible to do. How would this third party even be able to guess what the real or family value of an item is?

Each heir would have a hard copy of the Inventory and Appraisal and may freely choose any item they wish from the Inventory each time their turn comes up regardless of the financial or intrinsic value of that item, which makes this a fair and equitable division process as the heirs themselves are choosing the items that they value the most.

Any impartial professional person could run / direct this group email choosing process.

1) This "Round Robin" choosing process could be very simple with each of the five heirs having a printed copy of the line-item inventory list and using a group email process or the impartial director can notify each heir when their turn to pick comes up and then we wait on that heir to pick what they want (and that heir notifies the impartial person which item they pick via email so that there is a record of everything) and then the impartial person also posts an ongoing list of the items that have been chosen in each round and who chose them so we can all cross those items off on our individual line-item inventory lists.

Here is how the "Round Robin" choosing process could work:

First, there is a simple free App that could impartially choose the "straw" for each heir: ( ‎Draw Straws To Decide ) who goes first, second, third, fourth, fifth.

Second, the person directing this process gets us started ("Round Robin" via a written ongoing group email) and we just go in turns picking / claiming items as we pick from the shared inventory list of all of the estate's tangible personal property items with each person picking an item when their turn comes up. A way to make this fairer might be to have the "pick" sequence go 1-2-3-4-5-5-4-3-2-1-1...

To speed up this process after the 10 th round each person could begin choosing 2 items per turn. There are about 500 of the estate's tangible personal property items in the home so each of the five heirs could eventually choose 100 items if they wished.

2) After the "Round Robin" is completed and all 500+ items have been chosen (2 - 3 of the heirs have stated that they like ALL of the items so there are no unwanted items) ... once everyone is in agreement on exactly which pieces of property each person has fairly chosen as their distributive share, we will pay our attorney to file the documents to petition the Court for a judgement ordering the distribution, which states exactly who is to be distributed what.

3) Once the items were received by each heir, receipts would be signed, filed into the probate proceedings and the Court could sign a supplemental judgement closing our mother's Estate Probate.

 

[Foamback]

Do you realize how difficult it is to appraise that stuff? It's basically impossible. The false impressions given off by eBay and Etsy notwithstanding, that stuff effectively has little value.

Everyone needs to show up with a trailer and start taking turns.

Appraisal and court orders will cost more than the items.

Just listing the items is weighty chore, especially if you're 1000 miles away.

 

[TamD]

Do you realize how difficult it is to appraise that stuff? It's basically impossible. The false impressions given off by eBay and Etsy notwithstanding, that stuff effectively has little value.

Everyone needs to show up with a trailer and start taking turns.

Appraisal and court orders will cost more than the items.

Just listing the items is weighty chore, especially if you're 1000 miles away.

Yes, the Inventory and Appraisal is already finished (500+ items working from photos taken in spring of 2023 and compared with photos taken in spring of 2024 and I did the Inventory and Appraisal myself and it took me over a month using the "sold" section of Ebay and some other auction sites). We would definitely need some impartial "Director" on site to oversee the distribution as the three dishonest siblings are shameless and aggressive and will not take fair turns and will take items that others have chosen and will not respect the rules. Perhaps hiring a couple of off-duty Sheriff's Deputies to Direct the "Round Robin" and Distribution? Sadly, the three dishonest and aggressive siblings will most likely need Court Oversight to comply with the rules. They have coveted and fought over these items for decades. I cannot wait until this is over and done with...hopefully without any liens having been placed upon my share of the proceeds from the sale of the house.

 

[army judge]

As far as financial assets other than the house...very little and the Intestate Estate is now effectively Insolvent as our PR unnecessarily depleted our $30,000.00 of estate assets.

Please excuse my lack of decorum, I sincerely apologize.

I endeavor to offer my most personal, deepest, sincerest condolences upon the passing of a poster's loved one(s).

In your case, I jumped in with comments, rather than condolences.

Excuse my foolish, faux pas.

Please accept my condolences upon the recent loss of your beloved mother. May she forever rest in peaceful slumber, where you can one day be reunited.

Any death seems to attract buzzards to feast upon whatever they can pilfer and loot.

I've experienced the loss of my father and mother, along with my first wife.

One thing I've learned, is stay away from the human buzzards. They are far worse than the greedy vultures nature sends to feast upon the decaying carrion.

I came to the conclusion, let the buzzards fight, argue, bicker amongst themselves. I stayed away from the discussions of divvying up personal property, valuables, mementos, etc...

I was there only to see that my mother, father, and wife were laid to rest with dignity and solemnity they all deserved.

You might simply wish to use this time to reflect the wonderful times you and your mother shared. Tell your children about her, her kindness,her dignity, her humor, anything and everything you can recall. Now is the time to share those precious memories with others you and she loved.

For you and yours:

Scripture: Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. – Matthew 11:28-30

Scripture: Call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me. – Psalm 50:15


"Father in heaven, my heart is heavy, laden with grief. The sadness I feel at my loved one's death is an incredible weight, and the grieving process is very hard.

"I ask that you would bear her burden and relieve her from her labors. I also ask that you provide what you have promised, which is rest for her soul.

"You are my gentle savior, and I am lowly in heart. That's exactly what I need right now, Father, strength and emotional healing. I have been brought low, and need a gentle friend to lighten my load. I pray that you would do that for mother and me, so that she may find rest, comfort, and forever peace with you, Father."

 

[TamD]

Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for your very kind and comforting words and for the beautiful scripture.

I know that my parents and all of my loved ones are not gone...they have just gone on ahead and I will join them later. As I am often being reminded, I do not "have" a soul - I AM an immortal soul as are we all, and we are just having a physical experience and we will be reunited with our loved ones again when we walk on from this physical experience. Perhaps this may be a Native American trait or perhaps everyone has this to some degree or another, but my loved ones who have passed on often come to me in my dreams or daydream state (sometimes when they are passing or even months afterwards) and tell me that they love me or give me advice or information that has always been correct. Our Traditional Native American Healers tell us that they can see our loved ones and our ancestors who are guiding and watching over us standing around us who often inform them with regards to the root cause of any of our physical ailments more accurately than any doctor has ever done for me. All of this has happened to me too many times to be a fluke or my imagination so I know in my bones that they are still with us.

Please also accept my sincere condolences for the loss of your beloved father and your mother and your first wife. I am so very glad to hear that you were able to be there to see that they were laid to rest with the dignity and solemnity that they all deserved. May they forever rest in peaceful slumber, where you can one day be reunited.

Thank you also for the very wise advice. I would love to walk away from all of this...but a part of me is still the "oldest child" and I can almost hear my father's voice admonishing me to watch out for the others and to try to make sure that everything is fair, right and properly done. I am not sure if I can do it...but this will hopefully be the last, big thing that I can do for my parents...and also for my one good, kind and gentle younger brother who is the best of us.