Validation request met with subpoena ‍♀

P

pctechtv

New Member
Jurisdiction
New York
Hello friends. I sent a debt validation letter to a law firm that has been pursuing me at the behest of American Express. In the letter, I requested a few key points. Like:
  • Verification of the debt: Please provide a copy of the original signed contract or agreement that created this debt.
  • Amount of the debt: Please provide a detailed itemization of the debt, including the original amount, any interest, fees, or other charges.
  • Creditor information: Please provide the name and address of the original creditor.
  • Chain of custody: Documentation showing the chain of custody if the debt has been sold or transferred.
  • Proof of your authority: Please provide documentation that you have the authority to collect this debt on behalf of the original creditor.
They responded with none of the above. What they sent back was an information subpoena. It mentions some judgment I know nothing about. It has a form attached that as a lot of questions about my personal and professional life.

I think this is a tactic to avoid debt validation. I checked the case number on e-Courts, and nothing came up. I will go to the court to see if this is real also.

All that said, how should I proceed? Does this give them an excuse not to validate the debt?

Thanks for any help
 
pctechtv said:
a law firm that has been pursuing me at the behest of American Express.
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I assume from context that this means the law firm represents your creditor in a lawsuit that has already been filed. In fact, your use of the term "information subpoena" suggests to me that, perhaps, a judgment has already been entered against you. Please clarify.
 
pctechtv said:
They responded with none of the above.
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Read the US Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Particulary Section 809 Validation of Debts:

www.ftc.gov

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act As amended by Public Law 111-203, title X, 124 Stat.
www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

Was there anything in your letter that says you are disputing the debt? If not, then there is little or no advantage to the creditor to respond to your letter except with a lawsuit or, if there is already a judgment, wage garnishment, bank levy, or execution against non-exempt property.

NY has its own debt collection laws that are spread across several statutes and regulations that I don't have the time or the inclination to research. Though I did find out that the Statute of Limitations for a consumer debt lawsuit has been reduced to three years.
 
adjusterjack said:
Read the US Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Particulary Section 809 Validation of Debts:

www.ftc.gov

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act As amended by Public Law 111-203, title X, 124 Stat.
www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

Was there anything in your letter that says you are disputing the debt? If not, then there is little or no advantage to the creditor to respond to your letter except with a lawsuit or, if there is already a judgment, wage garnishment, bank levy, or execution against non-exempt property.

NY has its own debt collection laws that are spread across several statutes and regulations that I don't have the time or the inclination to research. Though I did find out that the Statute of Limitations for a consumer debt lawsuit has been reduced to three years.
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If this was filled before that it does it still matter? If this was filled after that what should I do? I say this becaue on the letter it says April 9 2024.
zddoodah said:
I assume from context that this means the law firm represents your creditor in a lawsuit that has already been filed. In fact, your use of the term "information subpoena" suggests to me that, perhaps, a judgment has already been entered against you. Please clarify.
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Hi, thanks for the reply...
I was never served or notified of any judgment with them against me. I know this process because I just went through it with my mother's estate a month ago. The only place I recognize them from is previous calls and attempts to collect on a debt that is not mine.
Is this saying they have a default judgment against me? They were calling for a while just like a debt collector.
 
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adjusterjack said:
Read the US Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Particulary Section 809 Validation of Debts:

www.ftc.gov

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act As amended by Public Law 111-203, title X, 124 Stat.
www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

Was there anything in your letter that says you are disputing the debt? If not, then there is little or no advantage to the creditor to respond to your letter except with a lawsuit or, if there is already a judgment, wage garnishment, bank levy, or execution against non-exempt property.

NY has its own debt collection laws that are spread across several statutes and regulations that I don't have the time or the inclination to research. Though I did find out that the Statute of Limitations for a consumer debt lawsuit has been reduced to three years.
Click to expand...
 
pctechtv said:
f this was filled before that it does it still matter? If this was filled after that what should I do? I say this becaue on the letter it says April 9 2024.
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Until recently, the statute of limitations for debt collectors in the state of New York was six years. The clock starts ticking on the date the borrower defaults on a debt. On April 7, 2022, the CCFA reduced the statute of limitations to three years. This means if a creditor sued you on April 5, 2022, for a five-year-old delinquent debt, you can't use the statute of limitations as a defense because the debt isn't time-barred. Time-barred means the statute of limitations hasn't expired for the debt. If the creditor tried to sue you for the same debt on April 8, 2022, you can use the statute of limitations as a defense since the debt will be time-barred.
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More at:

upsolve.org

New York’s Statute of Limitations for Credit Card Debt

Creditors and debt collectors can’t try to collect on past-due credit card debt forever. The statute of limitations limit sets a timeline for debt collection.
upsolve.org upsolve.org

When did you default on the unpaid balance of the American Express account? Month and year if don't know the exact date.
 
I see, they claim they have a judgment against me. So I read it where it says they can show me that. I know nothing of this judgement. I am going in the morning to file an order to show cause. If I can get it vacated where does that put me and them? Will they then be required to validate the debt?
 
If you don't answer my questions I'm not going to continue the conversation.

When did you default on the unpaid balance of the American Express account? Month and year if don't know the exact date.
 
pctechtv said:
Will they then be required to validate the debt?
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If the creditor has SUCCESSFULLY SUED you and received a judgment, you can FORGET DEBT VALIDATION.

The party's over, pal.

The only option PERHAPS still available to you is a Chapter Seven Bankruptcy. However, that won't be easy, even if its possible. But, if possible and you prevail, EVERYTHING begins tilt your way!!!!
 
pctechtv said:
December 2020
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Thank you.

According to the article I posted, if you actually were sued prior to April 7, 2022 it would have been well within the 6 year SOL.

If the lawsuit was filed after April 7, 2022 it would have had to have been filed by December 2023.

Unfortunately, the SOL is an affirmative defense and you would have had to raise it in your response to the lawsuit.

As you appear to have no knowledge you would have to move to vacate the judgment, if there was one, for whatever grounds you decide are appropriate.

pctechtv said:
I went back to court today and filled an order to show cause. We have a new court date. I have paperwork to serve the law firm.
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Order to show cause for what?
 
Piecing together everything since I posted on Tuesday, it sounds like there is a judgment against you, and the information subpoena is an attempt to collect the judgment. If that's correct, then all the validation stuff from the FDCPA is irrelevant.


pctechtv said:
I went back to court today and filled an order to show cause. We have a new court date.
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You didn't file an order to show cause ("OSC"). Only the court can do that. I assume you filed a request or motion for an OSC. If so, to whom do you want the order directed, and what would the purpose of the OSC? An OSC usually says something like: "[name of party] is hereby ordered to show cause why [the court shouldn't do something]." What is that something?

How much money is at issue here? Do you have any viable defense that you don't owe the money?
 
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The FDCPA does not apply to actions a creditor or collector takes in pursuing a court judgment on the debt.

In addition to that, the FDCPA only applies to "debt collectors" as defined in the Act, and the Act excludes the original creditor from the term "debt collector". If the claimed debt involved here was from charges AMEX says you made with your AMEX charge card then the FDCPA does not apply because AMEX would not be a "debt collector" as defined in the FDCPA. You need a state law similar to the FDCPA that broadens the scope of the law to include original creditors to get that protection.

Even if the FDCPA applied, AMEX would not have had to provide all the information you requested. Note that the statute makes a distinction between validation of the debt, which the collector must provide in its initial collection letter to you, and verification (the term used by the federal courts) of the debt, which is provided in response to a request by you. The requirements for verification of the debt fall under the paragraph covering a consumer's dispute of the debt, which states the following:

"(b) Disputed debts
If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector. Collection activities and communications that do not otherwise violate this subchapter may continue during the 30-day period referred to in subsection (a) unless the consumer has notified the debt collector in writing that the debt, or any portion of the debt, is disputed or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor. Any collection activities and communication during the 30-day period may not overshadow or be inconsistent with the disclosure of the consumer's right to dispute the debt or request the name and address of the original creditor."
15 U.S.C.A. § 1692g(b)
 

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