3ft of neighbor's property on our side of their retaining wall

[MC34]

Jurisdiction

Idaho

In doing some web searches, I came across this thread, which is the reverse of the issue I'm dealing with:
Neighbor Wants To Move Retaining Wall Near Property Line

A few years ago, a new neighbor built his home next to mine, and removed laterally supporting soil at my west property line (i.e., his home is downhill from mine, see attached photo). The city required him to install an engineered retaining wall, which he did (although it was a very shoddy, ugly retaining wall). After the snow melt the following year, we discovered that his retaining wall was 3 feet inside his property line (see survey stake in photo), thereby leaving 3 feet of his property on our side of his retaining wall. As such, I did not maintain that property on my side of his wall - nor did he and the result was grass that grew to ridiculous lengths due to his neglect, as well as a feckless HOA. Fortunately, that owner has since sold his home and there is now a new owner.

The new owner plans to remove the ugly wood wall and install a concrete block wall which is good news, however, they do not want to construct the new retaining wall at the property line (where we believe it should be located) but instead build the new wall on the same footer of the existing wall. For the 3 feet of their property behind the wall, they wish to level it and create a "terrace," cover that land with mulch, and plant some bushes along the length of the wall. Then, at the property line, they want to install a metal break that will be "nearly flush with the ground." (their words)

Our position:
We must re-grade our side of the property to restore the natural 5-8% downward slope for water drainage. After the re-grading is completed we will cover the ground with rocks. During winter rain and snow, along with the movement of large animals (mostly deer) rocks from our side of the property line will easily spill over a metal break that is nearly flush with the ground. If they want to have their terrace atop the new wall, we believe that a secondary shorter wall should be installed (again, on their side of our mutual property line) to clearly define the separation of properties, as well as to effectively hold the soil and rocks.

Additionally, we do not want the neighbors to enter our property to maintain the trees or bushes they plan to install. And it would be very difficult if not impossible for them to reach 3 feet behind the wall from their driveway to conduct such maintenance.

In all of my searches, I could not find any information about fences or walls being required to be located at the property line. However, it seems illogical to have their property on our side of their wall. Just looking for any thoughts or suggestions. In advance, yes, we have tried to talk to the new neighbors, propose other solutions and so on, but they are being inconsiderate.

 

[army judge]

In all of my searches, I could not find any information about fences or walls being required to be located at the property line. However, it seems illogical to have their property on our side of their wall. Just looking for any thoughts or suggestions. In advance, yes, we have tried to talk to the new neighbors, propose other solutions and so on, but they are being inconsiderate.

Hmmm

Thinking outside the box, a brilliant thought comes to mind.

The previous time you played the game, you appear to have been snookered.

If you're planning to play the game once more once, it might be advisable to HIRE a nearby "real estate attorney".

Good luck.

 

[adjusterjack]

Hmmm. I wonder what would cost less. Putting up a fence or barrier on my property line or paying a lawyer tens of thousands of dollars to litigate the matter.

I know what my choice would be and it wouldn't be a lawyer.

 

[welkin]

In doing some web searches, I came across this thread, which is the reverse of the issue I'm dealing with:
Neighbor Wants To Move Retaining Wall Near Property Line

A few years ago, a new neighbor built his home next to mine, and removed laterally supporting soil at my west property line (i.e., his home is downhill from mine, see attached photo). The city required him to install an engineered retaining wall, which he did (although it was a very shoddy, ugly retaining wall). After the snow melt the following year, we discovered that his retaining wall was 3 feet inside his property line (see survey stake in photo), thereby leaving 3 feet of his property on our side of his retaining wall. As such, I did not maintain that property on my side of his wall - nor did he and the result was grass that grew to ridiculous lengths due to his neglect, as well as a feckless HOA. Fortunately, that owner has since sold his home and there is now a new owner.

The new owner plans to remove the ugly wood wall and install a concrete block wall which is good news, however, they do not want to construct the new retaining wall at the property line (where we believe it should be located) but instead build the new wall on the same footer of the existing wall. For the 3 feet of their property behind the wall, they wish to level it and create a "terrace," cover that land with mulch, and plant some bushes along the length of the wall. Then, at the property line, they want to install a metal break that will be "nearly flush with the ground." (their words)

Our position:
We must re-grade our side of the property to restore the natural 5-8% downward slope for water drainage. After the re-grading is completed we will cover the ground with rocks. During winter rain and snow, along with the movement of large animals (mostly deer) rocks from our side of the property line will easily spill over a metal break that is nearly flush with the ground. If they want to have their terrace atop the new wall, we believe that a secondary shorter wall should be installed (again, on their side of our mutual property line) to clearly define the separation of properties, as well as to effectively hold the soil and rocks.

Additionally, we do not want the neighbors to enter our property to maintain the trees or bushes they plan to install. And it would be very difficult if not impossible for them to reach 3 feet behind the wall from their driveway to conduct such maintenance.

In all of my searches, I could not find any information about fences or walls being required to be located at the property line. However, it seems illogical to have their property on our side of their wall. Just looking for any thoughts or suggestions. In advance, yes, we have tried to talk to the new neighbors, propose other solutions and so on, but they are being inconsiderate.

You live in a planned community with a HOA, so you have contracts, covenants, and restrictions (CC&Rs). Have you checked thoroughly to see what if any regulations pertain to retaining walls and fencing? You may find that retaining walls and/or fences must be placed a certain amount inside the property lines for maintenance purposes. Why else would the original neighbor have given up 3 feet of his property? And why is the new neighbor wanting to rebuild the wall in the same place?

Your picture shows a wood wall on a concrete slab that falls off in the rear and extends about a foot past the wall in the front. While that slab footing may be suitable for the wood ties wall, it would not be acceptable for a concrete block wall. Wood moves but concrete block doesn't and without proper footings (below the frost line), would break apart in short order from freezing temperatures in winter. Your neighbor would still have to conform to any local, county, or state building codes. You should check with your building code enforcement agency.

I would not build a fence in your setting. It would be out of place, and I don't think it would solve anything and you would lose more of your property to use. And I don't think you need an attorney for anything at this stage.

Check out the CC&Rs and the building codes first to know what they can and can't do. If they can do what they say they want to do, then let them. If it creates drainage problems for you, it will be the neighbor that has to rectify the problem and not you because the common law establishes that you cannot alter the natural flow of water runoff. And don't worry about the trespassing to maintain the top of the wall. That too will be their problem.

 

[MC34]

You live in a planned community with a HOA, so you have contracts, covenants, and restrictions (CC&Rs). Have you checked thoroughly to see what if any regulations pertain to retaining walls and fencing? You may find that retaining walls and/or fences must be placed a certain amount inside the property lines for maintenance purposes. Why else would the original neighbor have given up 3 feet of his property? And why is the new neighbor wanting to rebuild the wall in the same place?

Your picture shows a wood wall on a concrete slab that falls off in the rear and extends about a foot past the wall in the front. While that slab footing may be suitable for the wood ties wall, it would not be acceptable for a concrete block wall. Wood moves but concrete block doesn't and without proper footings (below the frost line), would break apart in short order from freezing temperatures in winter. Your neighbor would still have to conform to any local, county, or state building codes. You should check with your building code enforcement agency.

I would not build a fence in your setting. It would be out of place, and I don't think it would solve anything and you would lose more of your property to use. And I don't think you need an attorney for anything at this stage.

Check out the CC&Rs and the building codes first to know what they can and can't do. If they can do what they say they want to do, then let them. If it creates drainage problems for you, it will be the neighbor that has to rectify the problem and not you because the common law establishes that you cannot alter the natural flow of water runoff. And don't worry about the trespassing to maintain the top of the wall. That too will be their problem.

Yes, we've read the CCRs from end to end. There's nothing about placing walls of fences several feet inside property lines. The old neighbor was an idiot and he was driven out of the neighborhood by surrounding neighbors; everyone hated him for his conduct. The new neighbor stated to me that they want to rebuild the new wall in the same place due to the extra cost of having it built at the lot line. However, I already know they are getting taken for a ride by a landscape company who quoted them an astronomical price, so the "extra cost" is on top of a ridiculous price to begin with. A practically no cost solution would be to restore the original grade from our home, down to their driveway, cover the ground with weed barrier, and then cover with rocks, no wall necessary.

 

[Zigner]

You can't force him to place the wall where YOU want it on his property.

 

[MC34]

No apparently I can't. If this were some decorative landscape feature in his backyard, sure I could understand, place it where you want.. But the wall is meant to be the property boundary. It makes no sense that I should have his property on my side of his wall. Why you ask? See this photo, this is what happened with the previous owner, he let the grass grow and grow until two days before he listed his home. I want the wall at the property line to avoid this type of thing from happening again. It's just stupid.

 

[Foamback]

The problem is constructing a wall just on the property line could also cause slope failures on your side of the property line. This is the safest way.

Maybe just worry about your own property

 

[welkin]

Yes, we've read the CCRs from end to end. There's nothing about placing walls of fences several feet inside property lines. The old neighbor was an idiot and he was driven out of the neighborhood by surrounding neighbors; everyone hated him for his conduct. The new neighbor stated to me that they want to rebuild the new wall in the same place due to the extra cost of having it built at the lot line. However, I already know they are getting taken for a ride by a landscape company who quoted them an astronomical price, so the "extra cost" is on top of a ridiculous price to begin with. A practically no cost solution would be to restore the original grade from our home, down to their driveway, cover the ground with weed barrier, and then cover with rocks, no wall necessary.

I guess you just ignored the fact that they still have to build to conform to the building code in your jurisdiction. And you didn't get the reinforcement feedback that you wanted. So, you can continue to be a pri** and not accept what your neighbor wants to do on his own property. I say pri** because you could have just mowed the grass in less than a minute while mowing your own instead of making such a big deal about it in the past. Now you want to dictate what the neighbor can or should do. Good luck with that.

You will get what you get. There is no legal question in this thread.