-
Welcome to our legal community! Click here or the create new topic button to ask a question and receive answers and comments from our friendly and helpful legal community.
Articles that answer frequent legal questions are in our Law Guide. Important legal news is reported in The Law JournalYou can find a lawyer near you in the Lawyer Directory. If you know that you need to hire an attorney, you can submit a case review from a lawyer.
Anyone need a cool used 1911?
- Thread Starter PayrollHRGuy
- Start date
adjusterjack
Super Moderator
Nah, I'd rather have this one.
Tax Counsel
Well-Known Member
Redemptionman
Well-Known Member
After reading a few books on Al Capone and seeing the basically unwatchable Capone movie with Tom Hardy as Capone. I am thinking while he was around bad people who did bad things to other people. He himself as a leader was not holistically bad, just a good person thrust into a bad situation.
adjusterjack
Super Moderator
Unless you believe that some people are born bad, you can say that about Hitler, Bin Laden, Manson, Daumer, and a long list of other evil people.
Capone was bad because he was bad.
Redemptionman
Well-Known Member
How many people did Capone kill himself? He was a product of his situation, a poor kid raised in a very tough environment. There is a difference from the people you mentioned to what Capone was.
Tax Counsel
Well-Known Member
Lots of poor kids raised in tough environments don't become mob bosses and murderers. He's responsible for the life choices he made, just as everyone else on this planet is responsible for their life choices. I don't give him a pass on his criminal activity just because he had a tough upbringing. He deserved a lot longer in prison than he actually got.
Redemptionman
Well-Known Member
Sort of a Robin Hood mystique about him. Opening a soup kitchen during the great depression, helping undeserved communities and children who grew up like himself. Snazzy dresser and overall a criminal but he did do some good where he could.
An anti hero kind of like Breaking Bad, Mr. White.
Tax Counsel
Well-Known Member
army judge
Super Moderator
The list of 33 people Capone allegedly ordered killed published in the Chicago Tribune in 1936 doesn't include anyone who was stabbed. He did have several former associates killed, some for stealing from him, but they were almost all shot.
What's Fact and What's Fiction in Capone.
Chicagoans and non-Chicagoans alike are familiar with the legacy of Al Capone. The king of crime ruled Chicago's underworld during the "sinful, ginful" 1920s, and experts say he was responsible, directly or indirectly, for the murders of between 300 and 700 people.
Approximately how many people did Al Capone kill himself or have killed? - Quora
PayrollHRGuy
Well-Known Member
Much like the Kennedy family, he wouldn't have been much without Prohibition.
Redemptionman
Well-Known Member
Ordered or indirectly is not doing it yourself. I am not saying he was a saint and more or less a development of his times. He supported a lot of families during a very hard time, directly or indirectly through bad and good deeds. On both sides of the law.
Tax Counsel
Well-Known Member
Hitler wasn't at the concentration camps actually operating the gas chambers that killed millions of people, but those chambers operated on his orders. Does that fact somehow make him less culpable of their deaths? No way in hell. Those camps would not have operated at all but for the orders he gave. He's fully responsible for the deaths caused as a result. And so Capone is responsible for the deaths carried out on his orders too. I don't get why you want to defend and put on pedestal a murderer and criminal who terrorized Chicago for years.
Redemptionman
Well-Known Member
why are you comparing an evil dictator mass murderer to Al Capone? Capone again was a product of his time, just like Billy the Kid, do you think him a all out bad guy as well?
Capone being the great leader, humanitarian he was gave hope to generations and many idolized him. Again, he supported both sides of Chicago law and paid police, judges, politicians and all equally. He gave them money when they could not scrape together enough to feed their families.
He is a legend in Chicago for the time he ruled the crime world, and I think your comments rather funny since O'Bama worked for a law firm that represented the new Capone disciples generations removed from when old Al gave to the people. Watch old footage of ole Al, he was loved by the media. Even though he didn't want to be.
Last edited:
Redemptionman
Well-Known Member
double post ??
Redemptionman
Well-Known Member
see he wasn't all bad,
Tax Counsel
Well-Known Member
You indicated that Capone ought to be excused for the murders that were committed on his orders because he didn't actually pull the trigger. Well, if that's your logic, then you ought to say that Hitler ought to be excused for the murders committed on his orders because he didn't actually pull the trigger or turn the gas valve, right? The same logic would apply to both. If you won't apply the same logic to both then I'd say you're being a hypocrite.
My view is that both men are responsible for the killings committed on their orders. I won't let Capone off the hook for the murders and other crimes he committed, either directly or indirectly on his orders, just because he also set up a some soup kitchens and did a few other things that helped burnish his image among Chicago poor.
LOL, you mean he bribed police, judges, and politicians to get them to look the other way while he committed his crime spree. That's not noble at all. Bribery is a crime, too, after all. That's just protecting his ass from prison. That's why it was the feds that had to go after him; he bought off all the locals.
You evidently idolize the man. I think that odd because I think he was nothing more than criminal scum.
What the heck does that have to do with anything? Certainly none of my comments had anything to do with Chicago lawyers representing Capone wannabees.
Redemptionman
Well-Known Member
Totally different scenario but if you choose to compare Capone to Hitler than be my guest. There definitely were two Al Capone's if you will. One was a ruthless business man who had an awesome business demeanor and could make decisions 3-4 moves ahead of various organized crime fractions and the local police. In his personal life he was very likeable from all accounts. Remember prohibition was a crazy time to outlaw liquor that was needed for the speak- eases. It would be like outlawing smoking today, people will always have a way to get illegal substances one way or another.
Again, not all murders and executions that were attributed to him were actually ordered by him. His niece said it was the local police who were responsible for the St. Valentine Day's massacre. Reputation at the time tend to make more of a legend than the actual man. Plus all the rappers and music artists tend to praise the man. Chicago has always had a history of organized crime and Capone may be the scapegoat for all the other gangsters that came after who were a lot more ruthless and murderess than he ever was. They shot him up with Mercury to try and cure him of syphilis. No doubt the government wanted the man dead but yet all they ever convicted him of was a lousy tax evasion crime.
Again, not all murders and executions that were attributed to him were actually ordered by him. His niece said it was the local police who were responsible for the St. Valentine Day's massacre. Reputation at the time tend to make more of a legend than the actual man. Plus all the rappers and music artists tend to praise the man. Chicago has always had a history of organized crime and Capone may be the scapegoat for all the other gangsters that came after who were a lot more ruthless and murderess than he ever was. They shot him up with Mercury to try and cure him of syphilis. No doubt the government wanted the man dead but yet all they ever convicted him of was a lousy tax evasion crime.
Tax Counsel
Well-Known Member
Again, the comparison is a narrow one: I'm saying that if you think that Al Capone should be let off the hook for murders he ordered but didn't commit himself then logically you should think Hitler should be let off the hook for the murders he ordered but didn't commit himself. So let me put it to you directly since you seem to want to dodge it: do you think Capone is responsible for the murders he ordered? Yes or no?
But you don't seem to dispute what is pretty well established: he did commit murders and other crimes, either directly or by giving orders to others. Yet you still idolize the man. In my view, your idolization of Capone indicates a rather misguided moral compass.
Redemptionman
Well-Known Member
Yes, Al Capone ordered hits or when asked probably shook his head in agreement or nodded. Maybe all he gave was the DON stare to have it done.All I am saying for his time period he helped under privileged kids and opened a soup kitchen. Not to mention helping with numerous families in the time period, some through legal and illegal operations.
I don't idolize him though nor give him a free pass if you. He is a criminal after all and did not live the most moral of lives. It is rumored that the drug trafficking operations is the only thing that saved the housing market in 2008. America has always had a fascination with Robin Hood type characters or people who rode on both sides of the fence if you will. Both Good and Bad.
Hence why so many books and movies have been made about him and/ or his organized criminal enterprise.
Tax Counsel
Well-Known Member
Share this page
