Change in circumstance?

[Heidi_Starling]

Can someone please explain this to me, I just do not understand how my Ex has a significant change in circumstances. According to a better description of the statute according to the appellate court I found this: 1. A substantial change of circumstances requires that the facts on which the prior order was based differ from the present facts and the difference is enough to justify the court's considering whether to modify the order. (Licary v. Licary, Keller v. Keller)

The fact on which our divorce orders were written was my intent to move. I have an email dated before the divorce was final in 1997 stating I intended to move and refused to sign anything restricting that move or taking my daughter with me. There are four items in the divorce that would not have been needed if I stayed living in the same town as Ex. The 150 mile restriction is not in our divorce, I insisted upon the only limit being within the state. I moved 2 years ago!!! My Ex served me with papers to modify placement this summer, two years after I moved. My daughter has been in the new school district where I live for two full school years also. I only moved 50 miles away.

I just don't understand why a family court commissioner is saying the move is a change in circumstance. My attorney says we can argue it with the judge but she still thinks he'll say the move is a change. Even the GAL is saying that, though I had to argue with her because she said he only needed change of circumstances before 2 years from the prior order and it's after 2 years now. The only other change is Ex recently remarried, though he's listing other reasons for the change that are half truths and lies. But it keeps coming back to me moving.

Can anyone explain why this would be considered a change in circumstances? I think moving her back now would create a very significant change of circumstances.

Thank you

 

[army judge]

Can someone please explain this to me, I just do not understand how my Ex has a significant change in circumstances. According to a better description of the statute according to the appellate court I found this: 1. A substantial change of circumstances requires that the facts on which the prior order was based differ from the present facts and the difference is enough to justify the court's considering whether to modify the order. (Licary v. Licary, Keller v. Keller)

The fact on which our divorce orders were written was my intent to move. I have an email dated before the divorce was final in 1997 stating I intended to move and refused to sign anything restricting that move or taking my daughter with me. There are four items in the divorce that would not have been needed if I stayed living in the same town as Ex. The 150 mile restriction is not in our divorce, I insisted upon the only limit being within the state. I moved 2 years ago!!! My Ex served me with papers to modify placement this summer, two years after I moved. My daughter has been in the new school district where I live for two full school years also. I only moved 50 miles away.

I just don't understand why a family court commissioner is saying the move is a change in circumstance. My attorney says we can argue it with the judge but she still thinks he'll say the move is a change. Even the GAL is saying that, though I had to argue with her because she said he only needed change of circumstances before 2 years from the prior order and it's after 2 years now. The only other change is Ex recently remarried, though he's listing other reasons for the change that are half truths and lies. But it keeps coming back to me moving.

Can anyone explain why this would be considered a change in circumstances? I think moving her back now would create a very significant change of circumstances.

Thank you

Your attorney and you should be having this dialogue.
I can only say, that divorce combatants often wait years to strike.
Some divorce combatants allow the errors, omissions, transgressions, grievances to accrue for years.
then one fine day, they take the other combatant to court.
It is more about punishment than anything else.
Having only practiced law, and never having been divorced, I can't say how it must feel.
I can say what I've seen, and it hasn't bene pretty.

I suspect your "ex" is being petty and vindictive.
This behavior will extinguish itself one day, as your child becomes an adult.
Until then, you have to roll with the punches.

So, stop worrying about what you can't control.
Work with your lawyer to state your case.
Go to court at the appointed date and hour, and let the chips fall where they may.
But, have that chat with your lawyer.
Good luck.

 

[irish223]

Can someone please explain this to me, I just do not understand how my Ex has a significant change in circumstances. According to a better description of the statute according to the appellate court I found this: 1. A substantial change of circumstances requires that the facts on which the prior order was based differ from the present facts and the difference is enough to justify the court's considering whether to modify the order. (Licary v. Licary, Keller v. Keller)

The fact on which our divorce orders were written was my intent to move. I have an email dated before the divorce was final in 1997 stating I intended to move and refused to sign anything restricting that move or taking my daughter with me. There are four items in the divorce that would not have been needed if I stayed living in the same town as Ex. The 150 mile restriction is not in our divorce, I insisted upon the only limit being within the state. I moved 2 years ago!!! My Ex served me with papers to modify placement this summer, two years after I moved. My daughter has been in the new school district where I live for two full school years also. I only moved 50 miles away.

I just don't understand why a family court commissioner is saying the move is a change in circumstance. My attorney says we can argue it with the judge but she still thinks he'll say the move is a change. Even the GAL is saying that, though I had to argue with her because she said he only needed change of circumstances before 2 years from the prior order and it's after 2 years now. The only other change is Ex recently remarried, though he's listing other reasons for the change that are half truths and lies. But it keeps coming back to me moving.

Can anyone explain why this would be considered a change in circumstances? I think moving her back now would create a very significant change of circumstances.

Thank you

Is it stated in the original order that you would be moving?

Has the moved affected his visitation in any way? If so, then it can be considered a change. You didn't state the other reasons, but those combined with the move may be the deciding factors.

 

[Heidi_Starling]

Thank you, that is exactly what happened getting hit with a whole list of grievances Ex piled up, with most being things we were arguing about before the divorce including religion. Then his child support went up and he got married and new wife doesn't like having money go out of the house and wants to replace me as mom...and wham, served with papers from Ex that have no legal basis for a change.

 

[Heidi_Starling]

The divorce states "the parties acknowledge that their residence and work schedules may necessitate adjustments in placement hours and transportation arrangements" and also says we share transportation by meeting half-way or party receiving child providing transportation. We lived walking distance from each other at time of divorce so this shows intent to move along with my email that clearly states it.

At the first hearing Ex stated he didn't exercize the mid-week overnight so moving didn't effect his visitation. He actually gets more as I allow him most of summer & Xmas break because that is what my daughter wants, the divorce states 50% Xmas and shared summers (I'd assume this to be 50%? and Ex testified at child support he thought it was 6 weeks of summer).

The Commissioner only said moving was a change and the move is what it keeps coming back to so that seems to be the only thing looked at which is why I didn't list his other complaints like my religion (I changed religion before we even decided to divorce, and 8 months before divorce was final), his lie about work travel decreasing (his boss testified travel requirement is the same), etc.

Thank you.

 

[KCGirl]

Thank you, that is exactly what happened getting hit with a whole list of grievances Ex piled up, with most being things we were arguing about before the divorce including religion. Then his child support went up and he got married and new wife doesn't like having money go out of the house and wants to replace me as mom...and wham, served with papers from Ex that have no legal basis for a change.

It is very sad to see that years later after all is said and done one or both parties to a divorce (which may include extended family members) have yet to move beyond the adversarial positions they've taken in divorce proceedings. And it doesn't seem to matter how well those prone to vindictiveness fared in the divorce. They may have come away with 95 percent of the assets and few of the liabilities/bills of the union yet still carry around an axe with which to grind the other into oblivion.

If there are children involved when you might assume that the desire to protect their children would be most important it seems that (its not usually both) one party will instead use the children as battering rams against the other parent. Distortion of the truth, lies, accusations of abuse (sexual, physical, emotional), all are fair game with which to attack and destroy. I'm thinking especially of a 'mother' I know of who says that all she has ever wanted from life is the joy of motherhood and caring for her child. I've not quite figured out how that works into her lifelong dream when she manipulates the child, attempts to drive wedges and plant seeds of doubt between child and the other parent. And still her vision of herself as mother-of-the-year remains intact. Parental alienation is in dispute by feminists who wish to say there is no such thing but basically its a pattern of behavior usually carried out by mothers whose intentions appear to be to erase their "opponent" from existence.

It really gets to me when I see this kind of unbecoming and harmful behavior reduced to nothing more than a male - female supremacy issue. It doesn't seem to matter to feminists that real harm might be occurring to innocent children, the point of the matter is to SCORE 1 for feminists, another blow to fathers.

Either parent is capable of dishonorable intentions but the manipulative behavior seems to be more likely among females. Which makes a sick sort of sense in a way, after all, women cannot count of physical prowess to 'win' their battles so instead they are left to use their wits whereas males are more likely to use physical intimidation. But ultimately there are no hard and fast rules except that if there are losers its usually the children who lose the most, ironically.

If I sound rather biased or in sympathy toward males in divorce and child custody proceedings I guess it would be fair to say I am guilty as charged. But that's because there is ample evidence that OVERALL fathers appear to come out the worse for wear in a divorce especially if she uses allegations of abuse which don't need to be proved. Innocent until proven guilty does not seem to apply where allegations of abuse, especially child abuse or molestation are concerned.

 

[Heidi_Starling]

Yes, obviously Ex has been carrying an axe for 3 years and is now trying to grind me with it. An 18 year marriage, put him through schooling and now he makes 4 times what I do, and I did not ask for maintenance because I knew he would never agree to it and my requirement was no limitations on moving within the state in exchange.

It isn't just mothers, in this case it is the father who told the 12 yr old child about going to court and had her write a letter to the court saying she wanted to live with him over a month before I was served. You've read my other post about the judicial commission so you know I gave him liberal summer visitation from Jun 9 until August 1, plenty of time to manipulate the child. And then he schedules the hearing for 4 days before I was to get her back and takes away most of my share of summer, I only got her for 2 weeks. He even had her text me at 11pm 2 nights before the hearing, to tell me she wanted to live with dad. Why? Because his blackmail didn't work and I wouldn't sign his stipulation giving her to him and offering me less visitation than he had, and that day he found out about my motion to postpone to retain counsel for myself and he knew I was going to the hearing and fighting it. When my daughter was with me she was unsure, wanted to live with both of us, and became increasingly emotional not wanting to be in the middle anymore or talk about it. I took her to a counselor. I told the GAL when my daughter did not want to talk to her and set the ground rule she was not to ask where she wanted to live because that was the only way my daughter would agree to talk to her. And the GAL held it against me. The "system" is so messed up it requires a parent to manipulate a child to win custody, that is so wrong. Throughout it all I played by the rules, gave Ex extra weekends once school started, after he denied letting me have my daughter twice during the summer when he was out of town on business for 3 days two different times (once he agreed by phone, then emailed me at 2am to refuse like he'd never agreed to it at all). I have been cussed at, intimidated by irrational screaming, put down, told I was argumentative because I made plans for 1 weekend out of 6 and had offered him the other 5 weekends. That is the only abuse I have ever accused him of because it was verbal abuse and intimidation.

I can't say I totally disagree with you that manipulation is more likely with females because I am believing more and more what my lawyer said, it is the new wife driving this. She has told my child that I have to give her reasons why she is better staying with me, but "they" don't so she can make up her own mind. The reasons I gave were in answer to my daughter's question if I wanted her for her well being or my well being (wonder which one of them put that question in her) and I felt she deserved an answer. They have also told her I am bribing her with the activities she has always been able to do because I work from home and am available for transportation and to attend her games/shows and anything else in order to join whatever interests her.

Sorry, once I get going it just infuriates me because you are RIGHT that it is my child who is being hurt in this and I hate it and I wish I could protect her from it all. I tried my best to take her totally out of the equation and not have to decide or talk to anyone she didn't want to or talk about anything she didn't want to. But that is not what the system wants or looks at. Just as the system doesn't care about the law stating it is in the best interest of the child to continue current placement because change is hard on children and not desirable, and wants to uproot a child who is a straight A student, has no behavior problems, lots of friends, involved in lots of activities and even the counselor said she had no problems (outside being in the middle of this custody battle) needing further counseling and put her with the parent who has shown he will do anything to keep her from me when he has control.

 

[KCGirl]

But what is the status now, maybe I missed something but your daughter is still with you is that correct? Somehow the old "possession is 9/10ths of the law" is at least worth considering.

I think some judges would say that a 50 mile move is not a considerable change and some would say it is, again that's a matter of opinion and opinions or viewpoints are hard to prove false.

One thing I would say is I noticed you said you work from your home and as such are more flexible to be more active in your daughter's life and provide transportation and so forth for her activities and I would emphasize that imo. This is just from what I've read I've seen that stressed as important. The other thing that I think is and advantage for you is that you appear (to me) to have been more open to giving your exhusband generous times for visitation whereas he has tried to manipulate yours to be minimal and its supposed to be a consideration that the child would be better off with the parent who is least likely to try to cause problems with visitation. So those things are good strong points for you imo. And you still have your daughter if I have it figured right so there is still time to reverse things.

I agree with you, in my opinion, I suspect that new wife has had a fair amount of influence in stirring things up.

 

[Heidi_Starling]

But what is the status now, maybe I missed something but your daughter is still with you is that correct? Somehow the old "possession is 9/10ths of the law" is at least worth considering.

I think some judges would say that a 50 mile move is not a considerable change and some would say it is, again that's a matter of opinion and opinions or viewpoints are hard to prove false.

One thing I would say is I noticed you said you work from your home and as such are more flexible to be more active in your daughter's life and provide transportation and so forth for her activities and I would emphasize that imo. This is just from what I've read I've seen that stressed as important. The other thing that I think is and advantage for you is that you appear (to me) to have been more open to giving your exhusband generous times for visitation whereas he has tried to manipulate yours to be minimal and its supposed to be a consideration that the child would be better off with the parent who is least likely to try to cause problems with visitation. So those things are good strong points for you imo. And you still have your daughter if I have it figured right so there is still time to reverse things.

I agree with you, in my opinion, I suspect that new wife has had a fair amount of influence in stirring things up.

The status right now is the Commissioner pressed the GAL for a recommendation and adopted it for EX, we are now waiting for a DeNovo hearing in early Dec. in front of the judge to try to reverse this with a stipulation that daughter does not move before then since they had to change the hearing date to after when the move was to take place, because Ex was out of town traveling again for the 1st date we had set up. I agree with you I have very strong points. It was ignored by the GAL that he kept her from me and I've always given generous summer and school break time and ignored that Ex travels for his job and is gone at least once a month for 3-5 weeknights now that he has a wife to watch his child. Just like it's being ignored he does not have a change in circumstances and has not proven that there is anything detrimental to her well being where she is living now with me or anything that would be better for her well being if she moved. This whole thing is just frustrating.

 

[KCGirl]

Heidi, this is a website that provides many links about child custody problems. It is primarily canadian but the information is both interesting and you might find something that you could use, you never know. I was specifically interested in parents who interfere in custody/visitation and it sounds as though your ex might be exhibiting signs?

Anyway, here it is if you care to look. It seems like Canada is further along than we are in the Parental Alienation discussion/conflicts and resolution. Most feminists adamantly deny it exists. Which makes me question their sincerity. I mean why come out with a blanket condemnation and refuse to look at individual cases? Their premise is it is charges made mostly by men against women by I don't think so. So if you are a feminist are you really being fair to your "sisters" if you pointedly and unilaterally declare that this is just some tool dreamed up by men to harass women?

I was reading some of the discussions and I just discovered that actually it does have some U.S. specific information, so there you go.

http://www.canadiancrc.com/Parental...nds_for_Modification_Child_Custody_JAN97.aspx