Cop Claims I ran Through Red

[loni]

Recently, I received a ticket for "running" through red light, while traveling over a four lane intersection. The stoplight at this intersection is located beyond the four lanes of traffic, and when I had entered into the intersection the light was still yellow. In the final instants of having the light in my view, I see it turn red, but at this point I was already advancing under the light. The motorcycle cop who pulled me over had been to my left and beyond another row of cars at my original point of entrance to the intersection. Because of this row of cars, there is no way he could of seen my car the instant I entered the intersection, but rather only when I am in middle the intersection- and more than likely- only sees me advancing under the recently turned red stoplight. Can I fight this ticket?

Also, I'm assuming the fact that there are count-down crosswalk lights at this intersection can be used against me. Also, there are no witnesses.

 

[jharris352]

You can fight the ticket, and if your version of the facts is correct you are right that you did not run the red light. As long as your car is in the intersection before the red light comes on you are in your rights to proceed.

That having been said, the Judge is likely going to rule against you. Your best bet is to go into the hearing, talk to the prosecutor about lowering the ticket to some non-moving violation and paying the fine.

 

[mightymoose]

Getting into the intersection before the red does not necessarily make it ok.
You opened yourself to a judgment call for the officer. If you had ample time to stop and did not (you raced the yellow) you can still get cited. If the officer felt there was something unsafe about how you went through the intersection, you can still get cited.
A yellow light is your signal to prepare to stop. If you go to court you will have to explain a scenario for why you felt it was unsafe, or you were unable to stop, before the light turned red.

 

[jharris352]

And now we see the problem. The LAW states that if you are in the intersection before the light turns red (specifically on the other side of the white line) then you did not run the red light. Any other interpretation makes it an opinion.

What we see with Moose here is one of the problems with taking police officer's at their word. A violation of law should not be someone's opinion. It should be verifiable and exact. There should be a bright line between, he did it and he didn't do it.

I have to disagree Moose. It may be a jurisdictional thing (I don't know what state you are in).

 

[tpajet]

In Florida if you are past the stop line before the light actually turns red then you have not run the red light. Take this to court and fight it, with you main argument being that you were already past the stop line when the light changed.

 

[mightymoose]

I was just creating a scenario... it is one thing to be out in the intersection when the light changes... it is another to race out into the intersection before it changes. If the light turned yellow right after the person crossed the line then they would clear the intersection before the red. If it was yellow 3-4 seconds before they got to the line then they should have been stopping. It would still be a good traffic stop for safety reasons, and if a citation is written it should be for failure to obey a traffic control device rather than the specific red light violation. In Florida this is 316.074 (1).

What we have here is in fact a judgment call, which police officers regularly have to make. The OP acknowledges that the officer MIGHT not have had a clear view of the intersection, and clearly said that the officer probably only saw the vehicle pass through against the red. If that is what the officer saw, then that is why the officer wrote the citation. The driver of the vehicle has control over the situation by deciding whether or not they are going to "beat the light".

If this person goes to court and argues that he was watching the yellow right up until it turned red, the question will be, "Well, why didn't you stop?" The only way to answer that question is with an explanation for why it was unsafe to do so... perhaps there was not enough distance due to speed or there was another vehicle right on your bumper and you didn't want to cause a collision with a quick stop. However, the lights are timed properly so that vehicles traveling the speed limit have ample time to stop, and had the light turned yellow just as the vehicle approached the intersection, it would not turn red until it was through or very nearly through.

This scenario was apparently close enough, that in the officer's judgment, based upon what he saw, the vehicle crossed against the red and probably should have stopped. Officers aren't set up at the intersections like at the Indy 500 for a photo finish... they are not computers... they call them as they see them and have the discretion of whether or not to write a citation. Maybe if there are traffic cameras at this intersection he might be able to use that evidence, but if it doesn't show the driver even tap the brakes on a long yellow, I would still expect him to get pegged with failure to obey the signal if not the specific red light violation.

 

[CdwJava]

We also do not know what specific section the OP was cited for. What may have been scribbled as "ran a red" on the citation could have been cited for a section that covers remaining in an intersection after a red light ... perhaps the OP entered the intersection, but traffic prevented him from clearing it.

This is why it is important to ask posters the specific code section for which they were cited. What is scribbled as a note on the cite may not be that closely related to the code section charged.