(Dept. Store) Settlement Protection Recovery

[Confused000]

I checked out of a store in Texas and was stopped in the entryway. I had magazines on the top rack of my basket under my purse. I was on the phone and did not pay for them. I buy magazines all the time and put them there so that they don't get wet from frozen foods or whatever. If I buy greeting cards, I put them there as well. I told them this. I have done that one other time about a year ago and when I was loading my car I saw them and returned back inside to pay for them. I was escorted to the back of the store. They asked for my ID and took pictures of the magazines. I even told that this had happened before and when I realized it, I went back inside. They told me that I would get a letter with instructions of what to do and that "since I had done this before".... I needed to take care to pay attention to the information in the letter. Clearly, they weren't listening or just didn't care or pay attention to what I was saying.

I received a letter telling me that I needed to pay 200.00 or further action would be taken. I have read a few posts on the internet and people admit that they had stolen and regretted their actions....my actions were not intentional. I am 50 years old and a college instructor. I stopped by after work and was professionally dressed. They didn't listen and twisted what I said. Is there another avenue for me to take besides paying this fee?

Thanks in advance!


The name of the store was removed to protect your privacy and your rights to not incriminate yourself. Another moderator removed name of store from body of post. I went ahead & removed name of store from title of thread also. (OP's protection) Betty3

 

[army judge]

I checked out of a store in Texas and was stopped in the entryway. I had magazines on the top rack of my basket under my purse. I was on the phone and did not pay for them. I buy magazines all the time and put them there so that they don't get wet from frozen foods or whatever. If I buy greeting cards, I put them there as well. I told them this. I have done that one other time about a year ago and when I was loading my car I saw them and returned back inside to pay for them. I was escorted to the back of the store. They asked for my ID and took pictures of the magazines. I even told that this had happened before and when I realized it, I went back inside. They told me that I would get a letter with instructions of what to do and that "since I had done this before".... I needed to take care to pay attention to the information in the letter. Clearly, they weren't listening or just didn't care or pay attention to what I was saying.

I received a letter telling me that I needed to pay 200.00 or further action would be taken. I have read a few posts on the internet and people admit that they had stolen and regretted their actions....my actions were not intentional. I am 50 years old and a college instructor. I stopped by after work and was professionally dressed. They didn't listen and twisted what I said. Is there another avenue for me to take besides paying this fee?

Thanks in advance!


The name of the store was removed to protect your privacy and your rights to not incriminate yourself.

Yes, you are under NO legal obligation, nor do you have a legal duty to pay a demand letter.

If your neighbor sent you a letter DEMANDING you pay him $5,000 because your leaves fell onto his freshly mowed lawn, would you just cough it up?

Furthermore, Texas law is very clear on allowing merchants to send these letters, but there is no legal mechanism by which they can collect against these letters.
As far as this episode is concerned, you were never convicted of any crime.
You have not been charged with a crime.
You will not be charged with a crime resulting from your alleged involvement in this event.
So, you can pay their demands, if you wish.
Or, you can ignore their demands, if you wish.

Texas, unlike some other states, has no "citizen arrest" statutes on the books.
As near as I can discover, Texas law:"14.01 of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure" allows individuals to make a citizens arrest for felonies they witnessed and some crimes against the public peace (be very careful if you decide to do that).
Texas is a common law state, and relies mainly on legal precedent and some statutes to address this, hampering the lawful ability of merchants (and their agents) to arrest purported garden variety thieves.

Texas peace officers are legally allowed to arrest a person who commits an offense within the officer's immediate presence or view, if the offense is a felony, or a violation of Chapter 42 or 49, Penal Code, or a breach of the peace.

If the officer didn't witness the theft (or other misdemeanor), no LAWFUL arrest can be effected.
This is why some officers want the suspect to " 'fee up ".
Remember, ANYTHING YOU SAY, CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW!
So, be smart, obey their laws - but if you do get POPPED, just INVOKE.
Say, I want to remain silent, and I wish to consult an attorney.
Then, no matter what chicanery they employ (and chicanery will be employed), say nothing but: I want to remain silent, and I wish to consult an attorney.
This is why merchants will attempt to get alleged thieves (shoplifters) to confess to stealing. The confessions are then used to get the police to arrest the purported thief. If the alleged miscreant simply remained silent, and nothing else is alleged to have transpired, the merchant would then be required to seek redress via "complaint and warrant".

Read what a noted Texas criminal defense attorney has to say on this matter:

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ug...in-addition-to-or-instead-of-criminal-charges

Powers of peace officers in Texas to arrest:

http://law.onecle.com/texas/criminal-procedure/14.03.00.html

Here you can read some more about these demand letters:

http://community.lawyers.com/forums/t/103682.aspx

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/jonesboro-ar/TF8HCQM4OJRNDGN6R/p2

Its up to you, OP.
Mistakes sometimes do occur.
If a mistake did occur, they tend not to believe you if you attempt to explain how a mistake happened.

Its always best to remain silent, because its your right!


Good luck, and remember, never explain.
They won't believe you, because they want to bully you into CONFESSING.
To them, you're just another pelt.
You'll be fashioned into a great beaver fur coat!

 

[shrinkmaster]

You can pay or refuse to pay and deal with whatever consequences (if any) come afterwards. I am a Retail Theft consultant and answer questions like yours daily. I advise you pay it and the accidental shoplifting wont work. Its your call though but before you decide read these two posts

http://www.parentnook.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=161&t=3934 http://www.parentnook.com/accidental-shoplifting/

I would further advise you to remove the store name from your posts

 

[mightymoose]

Over something this absurd I would certainly have my day in court if they wanted to pursue it.
I doubt they will.
That letter has no force of law. Feel free to ignore it. This is a scare tactic to get crooks to pay up without having to go to court.

 

[shrinkmaster]

No one can say with any certainty whether or not the recovery will opt to take this to court if you ignore it. There are other options as well (did you read link) They have the legal right to take this to court and if they do you will lose. the couple hundred dollars will go to a thousand maybe more. Again its your choice are you a gambler? I can tell you some of these recovery services can be aggressive and use full extent of the law to get these funds. I know this as I work in this area. Once more are you wiling to gamble with your money and freedom?

 

[army judge]

There has never been anyone in the ENTIRE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS sued under this SCARE 'EM TO PAY UP DEMAND SCHEME, not one case!
Again, I implore everyone to STOP AND THNK, don't steal anything. It'll ruin your life. Even when you beat the darn letter, your once good name is tarnished beyond repair. Please, for your sake, people, DON'T steal.
Don't drink alcoholic beverages, or smoke that wacky weed and drive.
Last, but still important, DON'T TEXT AND DRIVE.
Slow down obey the speed limit.
This is a public service announcement begging you to NOT ruin the good name your mommy gave you!!!

 

[mightymoose]

No one can say with any certainty whether or not the recovery will opt to take this to court if you ignore it.

No, I am quite certain nobody will pursue this incredibly weak case.

There are other options as well (did you read link) They have the legal right to take this to court and if they do you will lose.

They will only win their case if they prove the elements the crime. Like it or not, intent is an element of the crime. As described here it may not have even been concealment. It would take a half wit prosecutor to being this silliness into court.

the couple hundred dollars will go to a thousand maybe more. Again its your choice are you a gambler? I can tell you some of these recovery services can be aggressive and use full extent of the law to get these funds. I know this as I work in this area. Once more are you wiling to gamble with your money and freedom?

Quit it with the scare tactics. The odds of this happening are absurdly small.

 

[army judge]

No, I am quite certain nobody will pursue this incredibly weak case.



They will only win their case if they prove the elements the crime. Like it or not, intent is an element of the crime. As described here it may not have even been concealment. It would take a half wit prosecutor to being this silliness into court.



Quit it with the scare tactics. The odds of this happening are absurdly small.

I am not a genius. I have investigated this. I requested our county law librarian to research if any civil cases had been filed pursuant to the statute that allows these cases to be pursued. She's a Cracker Jack librarian, and after a week of researching, she confirmed my feeble research. Not one case has ever been brought by anyone across the entire state of Texas. Mind you, Texas has 254 counties, big and small. Not one case has ever been brought. She's trying to determine how many have been filed in the other 49 states. A few of us even created a pool on that number. My guess is 12. The pot goes to the favorite charity of the lucky guesser.
It makes for a very interesting discussion.

 

[shrinkmaster]

NEVER have I denied that few cases go to court but there is that option. While current law enforcement and former Judges suggest you ignore state law some of which they were not even aware of until not long ago I am warning the OP or OPs of the possible dangers of not paying. In addition there are more possible consequences than just law suit. I work with and talk to these recovery services. I do not advocate theft or not paying consequences but I also help and guide those accused of shoplifting to the least damaging outcome to them. Once more its OP choice to pay or not pay and risk possible consequences which can be more than just law suit.

 

[mightymoose]

While current law enforcement and former Judges suggest you ignore state law...

We are talking about a civil law which permits businesses to take certain actions, not a law that requires any person to comply, and for which there is no penalty for non compliance. It is also a very stupid law because businesses have the very same options even without it in place.
To say that people are being encouraged to ignore the law shows a lack of understanding of what the civil demand law is- there simply is no obligation to comply with it and payment of the demands is entirely optional. It is only a mechanism to keep petty things out of court and does not circumvent one's right to counsel and trial or the burden of the prosecution to prove its case.

 

[shrinkmaster]

Just like there is no obligation to pay your gas bill until they take it to court! You have made this argument before. It changes nothing. Civil Demand laws allow retailers to seek this money lawfully and can use court system to pursue it if unpaid. Whether they do so or not is a choice. Advocating that thieves should not pay goes against what I believe a Law enforcement officer or court official should stand for. Civil demand is state law and law in UK and Canada as well. Its there to help retailers recoup some of the cost to protect stores from theft.

 

[mightymoose]

A civil demand is not a bill and is not money owed until a court says so. It is simply a request to pay.

I don't advocate thieves get away with their crimes. I advocate the use of the court system, especially in scenarios as dumb as the one given here where it appears there was no crime. It would be foolish to pay the demand.

Civil demand laws have no teeth without the court and collection of demand fees is heavily reliant on scare tactics to avoid court. I would advise anyone to wait and see if further action is pursued before opting to pay. Any collection attempt can be completely ignored or defeated if the court is not involved.

 

[army judge]

A civil demand is not a bill and is not money owed until a court says so. It is simply a request to pay.

I don't advocate thieves get away with their crimes. I advocate the use of the court system, especially in scenarios as dumb as the one given here where it appears there was no crime. It would be foolish to pay the demand.

Civil demand laws have no teeth without the court and collection of demand fees is heavily reliant on scare tactics to avoid court. I would advise anyone to wait and see if further action is pursued before opting to pay. Any collection attempt can be completely ignored or defeated if the court is not involved.

Further, courts don't collect on judgments they award.
The plaintiff must then attempt to collect on his or her pretty piece of legal paper.
Courts decide and rule on matters, they have no inherent powers to collect.
That is not how our system of jurisprudence works for us, common men and women.