in the state of California do I have the right to refuse a TDM meeting

[Phina916]

On December 16th 2013 I called the cops on my boyfriend and I filed a false report of domestic violence so and then eventualy CPS had stepped in because it was stated that the kids was present. on January 2nd 2014 I went to a TDM meeting from there they determined that I would not be protective of my kids and said that the kids have to be in the care of my brother and sister in law. I understand that they're just doing their job but in that case I don't have a criminal record and I have never had a CPS case it out on me I need to know if I need to get a lawyer or just go do all these things that they ask me to do which is all irrelevant to what is going on I have another TDM meeting on January 6th 2014 if you can offer me any guidance, I'd appreciate it.

(removed personal info Betty3)

 

[Betty3]

I deleted your personal information for your protection. All replies will be posted here in this thread. Hold for replies.

(Your best bet is probably to do as you were told/asked to do though you can certainly talk to a lawyer.)

 

[CdwJava]

Yes, it might help to have an attorney. We don't know what CPS and the police know, but if they took your kids already as a result of the DV I strongly suspect this is not the first incident, or the allegations of abuse were bad or involved the kids directly. CPS just doesn't take kids because a couple argues - usually not even if they slap each other around once or twice. This is almost certainly more than that, or part of an ongoing series of misadventures.

I take it that you recanted your story of abuse to the police and are now seeking to protect your (alleged) abuser?

Understand that about 75% of DV victims will change their story, recant, or confess to lying to the police in order to protect their abuser. The assumption often is that what is said happened the night in question IS what happened. It is likely because you are now defending your abuser that CPS has stepped in to remove the children from your home. Because, either you are a vindictive liar who intentionally made a false report to the police of abuse, or, you are lying to protect your abuser for reasons of your own (the most likely reason). I suspect that the children have been removed while the matter is investigated.

 

[army judge]

On December 16th 2013 I called the cops on my boyfriend and I filed a false report of domestic violence so and then eventualy CPS had stepped in because it was stated that the kids was present. on January 2nd 2014 I went to a TDM meeting from there they determined that I would not be protective of my kids and said that the kids have to be in the care of my brother and sister in law. I understand that they're just doing their job but in that case I don't have a criminal record and I have never had a CPS case it out on me I need to know if I need to get a lawyer or just go do all these things that they ask me to do which is all irrelevant to what is going on I have another TDM meeting on January 6th 2014 if you can offer me any guidance, I'd appreciate it.

In California, as in most jurisdictions filing a false police report is a crime.

Making a False Report of a Crime violates The California Penal Code, section 148.5 PC.

You can be prosecuted when you make a false report of a misdemeanor or felony criminal matter to a:

• police or peace officer,
• prosecutor,
• grand jury, OR
• state or local employee assigned to accept reports from citizens (such as a 911 operator).

Penal Code 148.5 PC makes it a misdemeanor to make a false report of a crime to the police or other authorities.
As a misdemeanor, a person convicted faces up to six months in county jail.

Realistically, I wouldn't expect any jail time, but this can cause some negative issues to arise in your life.

I suggest you simply tell the truth.

As far as any interview with CPS, I never advise any person or couple to speak to any governmental agency without an attorney.

There is no harm in meeting with CPS, listening to what they have to say, being polite, but its always best; when the questions get personal to simply say, "I'm sorry, but under the advice of counsel, or in accordance with my rights against self incrimination, I respectfully decline to answer that question."

Finally, at any time during the interview if you are made to feel uncomfortable, just say; "I'd like to conclude the interview now to consult with my attorney."

Think about this very carefully, no man or woman is worth your life or the life of your babies.

You have rights, its best to know them.

Don't try to dance with the devil.

 

[Phina916]

thank you for your response we did get into altercation but it didn't happen as I said it happened he had pushed me and I fell I got a bruise on my side when I went to the TDM as you said they stated they felt that what I said the day of the report is really wat happen which is not how it played out at all. like you had said they just felt like I was trying to lie to protect my abuser which is not the case at all I have not had any contact with my abuser since the day that this had happened but they felt like I had with no proof at all just pure he say she say and their own personal opinion that I was having contact with him so they place my children in the care of my brother and sister in law they said I can be with my kids but I have to be supervised by either my brother or sister in law to make sure that my kids are not around the father even though they haven't been around the father they think that I have been around him which is not true at all I have had no contact at all with him and basically are trying to attack me they are making it seem like I'm the bad person in that I'm not trying to protect my kids which is not at all the case now just because they think I had have contact with him now they want to permanently remove the kids from my care can they do this are as a parent do I have rights what are my rights as a parent cuz I have done nothing wrong I have no criminal history I don't do drugs and yet they are still trying to treat me like a criminal I have no idea what to do

 

[Phina916]

Yes, it might help to have an attorney. We don't know what CPS and the police know, but if they took your kids already as a result of the DV I strongly suspect this is not the first incident, or the allegations of abuse were bad or involved the kids directly. CPS just doesn't take kids because a couple argues - usually not even if they slap each other around once or twice. This is almost certainly more than that, or part of an ongoing series of misadventures.

I take it that you recanted your story of abuse to the police and are now seeking to protect your (alleged) abuser?

Understand that about 75% of DV victims will change their story, recant, or confess to lying to the police in order to protect their abuser. The assumption often is that what is said happened the night in question IS what happened. It is likely because you are now defending your abuser that CPS has stepped in to remove the children from your home. Because, either you are a vindictive liar who intentionally made a false report to the police of abuse, or, you are lying to protect your abuser for reasons of your own (the most likely reason). I suspect that the children have been removed while the matter is investigated.[/QUOTE


thank you for your response we did get into altercation but it didn't happen as I said it happened he had pushed me and I fell I got a bruise on my side when I went to the TDM as you said they stated they felt that what I said the day of the report is really wat happen which is not how it played out at all. like you had said they just felt like I was trying to lie to protect my abuser which is not the case at all I have not had any contact with my abuser since the day that this had happened but they felt like I had with no proof at all just pure he say she say and their own personal opinion that I was having contact with him so they place my children in the care of my brother and sister in law they said I can be with my kids but I have to be supervised by either my brother or sister in law to make sure that my kids are not around the father even though they haven't been around the father they think that I have been around him which is not true at all I have had no contact at all with him and basically are trying to attack me they are making it seem like I'm the bad person in that I'm not trying to protect my kids which is not at all the case now just because they think I had have contact with him now they want to permanently remove the kids from my care can they do this are as a parent do I have rights what are my rights as a parent cuz I have done nothing wrong I have no criminal history I don't do drugs and yet they are still trying to treat me like a criminal I have no idea what to do

 

[Phina916]

in the state of California do I have the right to refuse a TDM until I speak to an attorney if I refuse the TDM can they take my kids from me.. please reply

 

[army judge]

thank you for your response we did get into altercation but it didn't happen as I said it happened he had pushed me and I fell I got a bruise on my side when I went to the TDM as you said they stated they felt that what I said the day of the report is really wat happen which is not how it played out at all. like you had said they just felt like I was trying to lie to protect my abuser which is not the case at all I have not had any contact with my abuser since the day that this had happened but they felt like I had with no proof at all just pure he say she say and their own personal opinion that I was having contact with him so they place my children in the care of my brother and sister in law they said I can be with my kids but I have to be supervised by either my brother or sister in law to make sure that my kids are not around the father even though they haven't been around the father they think that I have been around him which is not true at all I have had no contact at all with him and basically are trying to attack me they are making it seem like I'm the bad person in that I'm not trying to protect my kids which is not at all the case now just because they think I had have contact with him now they want to permanently remove the kids from my care can they do this are as a parent do I have rights what are my rights as a parent cuz I have done nothing wrong I have no criminal history I don't do drugs and yet they are still trying to treat me like a criminal I have no idea what to do

in the state of California do I have the right to refuse a TDM until I speak to an attorney if I refuse the TDM can they take my kids from me.. please reply

Two posts with one response!

Please read below.....

Yes, I'm sure this is very disturbing to you.

But, you have very little room to maneuver now because of your initial response.

You chose to call the police and told whatever story you thought was appropriate.

Think about all of this for a minute.

If you hadn't started this by calling the police, you wouldn't be where you are tonight.

In fact, what makes this more difficult for you is that now you claim you lied to the police.

It might not be so bad if you lie to your boyfriend, your mother, or a friend; because lying to them isn't a crime

However, lying to the police is a crime.

Okay, so you have two choices.

You can comply voluntarily with everything that CPS demands or mandates you to do.









Here is how the law applies in Dependency Court Hearings in California.

The social worker drafts allegations, which are simply accusations made by the social worker that he or she believes the state can prove that your children are at risk in your custody and that the state must detain (or take custody) of your children.

That appears to be where you are at this stage of the process.

You have now the right to an evidentiary hearing.

This is where you can call witnesses to support you, cross examine anyone who has made statements of neglect and abuse about you, and make your case that you are a fit and proper parent.

Essentially you are stating the contra-positive of the state's accusations, that your children are not at risk, and have not suffered abuse or neglect.

Then comes a detention hearing.

At the detention hearing you have the right to:

1. cross examine any witness against you, including the CPS/CFS worker;
2. present evidence on your own behalf;
3. subpoena witnesses;
4. present witnesses on your behalf.

If the government meets their burden PROVES a prima facie case for detention the matter proceeds to a jurisdictional hearing.

A jurisdictional hearing is normally set within 10 days.

Now the state must PROVE the allegations in the petition by a preponderance of the evidence.

I hope you see just how complicated this will eventually become.

It also won't just go away because you change your story.

Once the bell has been rung, it has no choice but to peel.

At the jurisdictional hearing you have the right to a trial on all of the allegations in the petition.

You or your attorney fights against the allegations of abuse and/or neglect – and when you or your attorney proves that the allegations are false or if the county cannot meet their burden of proof, (which is now a preponderance of the evidence), the petition will be dismissed.

If the government convinces the court the petition is "true," then jurisdiction is taken by the Court over your children.

The next stage flows to a dispositional hearing.

The social worker at CPS/DFS prepares a case plan and details the services that you will need to undergo in order to regain custody of your children.

It also describes how the case can eventually be closed.

You still, however, have the right to another trial (due process must always flow) at the dispositional stage.

Even though dependency jurisdiction was taken by the Court, you are still allowed to argue for dismissal of the action or an informal supervision plan.

If the court disagrees, only a lawyer can effectively navigate and advocate for a case plan that doesn't overwhelm the parent – for example, three goals could be combined into one plan and one service.

Okay, take a look at a Dependency Court Site for Sacramento County, CA. You can probably Google the Dependency Court for your county and read similar information for your county. Essentially, it is the same throughout your state. The distinction being addresses, phone numbers, etc... This how they describe (or explain) what I tried to do above.

http://www.saccourt.ca.gov/juvenile/dependency/general.aspx

Okay, what you need to know is that if you can't afford an attorney, and your financial situation warrants it, the court will appoint an attorney to represent your interests in this matter. The attorney will advocate for you, and help you get your children back. But, you must immediately request the court to appoint counsel because you can't afford to hire an attorney. the court will then instruct you as to how you go about getting qualified for court appointed (taxpayer funded) counsel.

NOTICE:



If the parents do not have an attorney, the judge or referee will ask if they want an attorney to represent them.


If the parents answer yes, the court will appoint either an attorney from Parent Advocates of Sacramento, Dependency Associates of Sacramento, or from a panel of private attorneys.

Usually a separate attorney is appointed to represent the child(ren).

In the case of conflict of interests, private counsel can be appointed.

In other words, when asked, be sure you respond, YES, I REQUEST COURT APPOINTED COUNSEL, YOUR HONOR!

 

[CdwJava]

thank you for your response we did get into altercation but it didn't happen as I said it happened he had pushed me and I fell I got a bruise on my side

Then that is AT LEAST a misdemeanor, and arguably a felony! What REALLY happened, then, was a potential felony domestic battery offense ... if what you say happened was worse, wow!

What did you SAY happened?

I have not had any contact with my abuser since the day that this had happened but they felt like I had with no proof at all just pure he say she say and their own personal opinion that I was having contact with him so they place my children in the care of my brother and sister in law

Clearly they didn't simply decide to flip a coin and ask the god of random coin flipping to say whether you have had contact with your abuser or not, so what gave them reason to think you HAD been in contact with him? Calls? Texts? Emails? Actual visits? Anyone telling CPS or the police that you have been in regular contact?

As a note, we get lied to every day by victims who sneak their abusers into their lives and around their kids in spite of restraining orders and past violence ... it is very common, and usually results in the abuser going to jail on a TRO violation, and mom (the original victim) losing the kids - at least temporarily - until she can get her head out of that very deep and dark place she has stuck it.

they said I can be with my kids but I have to be supervised by either my brother or sister in law to make sure that my kids are not around the father even though they haven't been around the father they think that I have been around him which is not true at all I have had no contact at all with him

Apparently someone - maybe the kids - have been saying that you have been. So, they are making sure.

now they want to permanently remove the kids from my care can they do this are as a parent do I have rights

It's not as easy as you make it sound. They will need to convince a court with clear and convincing evidence that the kids are at risk if they are not removed permanently from your care and custody. Can they show this?

You really need to try and get a consultation with an attorney ... or, work with a domestic violence program for assistance.

 

[Phina916]

Then that is AT LEAST a misdemeanor, and arguably a felony! What REALLY happened, then, was a potential felony domestic battery offense ... if what you say happened was worse, wow!

What did you SAY happened?


Clearly they didn't simply decide to flip a coin and ask the god of random coin flipping to say whether you have had contact with your abuser or not, so what gave them reason to think you HAD been in contact with him? Calls? Texts? Emails? Actual visits? Anyone telling CPS or the police that you have been in regular contact?

As a note, we get lied to every day by victims who sneak their abusers into their lives and around their kids in spite of restraining orders and past violence ... it is very common, and usually results in the abuser going to jail on a TRO violation, and mom (the original victim) losing the kids - at least temporarily - until she can get her head out of that very deep and dark place she has stuck it.


Apparently someone - maybe the kids - have been saying that you have been. So, they are making sure.


It's not as easy as you make it sound. They will need to convince a court with clear and convincing evidence that the kids are at risk if they are not removed permanently from your care and custody. Can they show this?

You really need to try and get a consultation with an attorney ... or, work with a domestic violence program for assistance.

no they have not had anyone say that I had any contact with him they only believe I have contact with them because when I am NOT with my children they feel that I am with him my brother and sister-in-law have to be around my kids 24 /7 I have to be supervised but if I have something to do and I want to take the kids with me but but nor my brother or sister in law can come I have no choice but to leave them with them while I go run my errands they are just going on what they believe basically their own personal opinions basically they're like when she's not with her kids where is she but they have no real proof that I am with my ex boyfriend.. I just want to know do I have the right to refuse anything that they asked me to do until I get an attorney to represent me

 

[Proserpina]

Yes, you have the right to refuse to cooperate and/or speak with them.

However, you also have the right to deal with the consequences.

 

[Phina916]

Like the right to refuse the TDM until I have an attorney present

 

[Phina916]

I am NOT trying to hide anything its just that I feel like there treating me like I'm the bad guy and there pushing me into a corner I don't want to make the mistake of saying something wrong and take the chance of getting my kids took I have no problem complying to whatever they want I just don't want to be given the runaround from what I read on the web I seen that they just have parents do a run around and at the end of all of this the parents still don't have the children I don't want to take the risk of losing my kids I have had no contact with my ex boyfriend nor did I not sit there and say that I wasn't subjected to abuse I just wanted them to understand that what I said isnt exactly how it played outbut I never stated that abuse never took in place

 

[army judge]

no they have not had anyone say that I had any contact with him they only believe I have contact with them because when I am NOT with my children they feel that I am with him my brother and sister-in-law have to be around my kids 24 /7 I have to be supervised but if I have something to do and I want to take the kids with me but but nor my brother or sister in law can come I have no choice but to leave them with them while I go run my errands they are just going on what they believe basically their own personal opinions basically they're like when she's not with her kids where is she but they have no real proof that I am with my ex boyfriend.. I just want to know do I have the right to refuse anything that they asked me to do until I get an attorney to represent me

Only a judge can order anyone to do something.

You are not required to speak with CPS.

There is no legal requirement that you allow them into your home, unless they possess a court order.

However, in CA the police can take your children if they have probable cause to believe they rae being harmed or neglected fro 72 hours.

You still retain all rights as their mother during those 72 hours, and always have the right to retain an attorney to represent you and your interests.

I've outlined how all this breaks down legally above.

There are several steps, and it all becomes pretty complicated.

But, at the first stage of these court proceedings you can bring any attorney you choose to hire.

Or, if you are unable to afford an attorney, the court will inquire if you wish counsel appointed to represent you.

If you satisfy the court's requirements of indigence, one will be appointed to represent you and your interests.

The court will also appoint an attorney to protect the children's rights, too.

 

[Phina916]

Only a judge can order anyone to do something.

You are not required to speak with CPS.

There is no legal requirement that you allow them into your home, unless they possess a court order.

However, in CA the police can take your children if they have probable cause to believe they rae being harmed or neglected fro 72 hours.

You still retain all rights as their mother during those 72 hours, and always have the right to retain an attorney to represent you and your interests.

I've outlined how all this breaks down legally above.

There are several steps, and it all becomes pretty complicated.

But, at the first stage of these court proceedings you can bring any attorney you choose to hire.

Or, if you are unable to afford an attorney, the court will inquire if you wish counsel appointed to represent you.

If you satisfy the court's requirements of indigence, one will be appointed to represent you and your interests.

The court will also appoint an attorney to protect the children's rights, too.

thank you for your response this has all been very helpful and have answered all of my questions I've had I just found out and I knew I was right about my feeling that they are violating my rights as a parent I have done nothing wrong I am the victimand all the other doing is piling up false allegations on me I'm going to deny anything that they tell me to do and I'm going to deny the TDM and I'm going to tell them that I want an attorney appointed to me does this sound like the right thing to do to you cuz it sounds like to me you really know your stuff

 

[army judge]

I am NOT trying to hide anything its just that I feel like there treating me like I'm the bad guy and there pushing me into a corner I don't want to make the mistake of saying something wrong and take the chance of getting my kids took I have no problem complying to whatever they want I just don't want to be given the runaround from what I read on the web I seen that they just have parents do a run around and at the end of all of this the parents still don't have the children I don't want to take the risk of losing my kids I have had no contact with my ex boyfriend nor did I not sit there and say that I wasn't subjected to abuse I just wanted them to understand that what I said isnt exactly how it played outbut I never stated that abuse never took in place

You are continuing to make more trouble for yourself by trying to explain.

It won't work.

You know that admonishment you see on "COPS", "The First 48", "Jail", any tv crime reality show, or tv crime drama, or court show: "YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT"????

Its time to use it.

they don't seek clarification of your story.

They don't care.

You continuing to want to explain, make it better for him, is only going to make it worse for YOU and YOUR kids.

Its time to SHUT UP, and make the state PROVE their case.

To play any game, you need to know the rules.

You don't know the rules to this game, so you need to stop trying to play it.

Its time to STOP blabbing, get a lawyer, or ask the court to appoint one for you, wait, and let the lawyer do the talking.

You change that story, other than some insignificant fact (like he was wearing a blue shirt and it was a green shirt) is only going to set you up to charged with a crime!!!!!

Before you do anything else, get a lawyer.

Until you get a lawyer, just stop talking!

 

[Phina916]

in the state of California do I have the right to refuse the TDM meeting and if I do not go to the TDM can a take my kids away from me by law

 

[army judge]

in the state of California do I have the right to refuse the TDM meeting and if I do not go to the TDM can a take my kids away from me by law

Please don't post duplicate questions.

Your questions were answered in a previous thread.

You were given websites where you could read information and acquire knowledge to use in your dilemma.

I suggest you read that information.

I also suggest you make a couple or three appointments with family law attorneys in your county or city.

Meet with those attorneys, and hire one, if you are able.

If your resources are low, and you are indigent, IF the county brings the case to court, you can ask the judge to appoint a taxpayer funded attorney.

For the FINAL time, you can choose to NOT comply with any request that CPS make sof you.

CPS can indeed take custody of your children, TEMPORARILY, and then file for removal of your children in a DEPENDENCY HEARING.



Here is more information you can use to better inform and prepare yourself:

https://secure.dss.cahwnet.gov/shd/pubintake/cdss-request.aspx

http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/shd/PG1104.htm

http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/shd/PG1110.htm



Some additional things to ponder, as you wait and decide what to do.

If your child(ren) is(are) taken into protective custody, the child(ren) may be placed in a licensed foster home, with an approved relative.or non-related extended family member.

California law requires that a petition be filed in Juvenile Court within two (2) work days and heard at a Detention Hearing within three (3) work days.

Attorneys are appointed to represent the parents and the child(ren).

It make take several hearings to agree on the best plan for ensuring the child's safety.

So, there you go.

If you refuse to voluntarily comply, the kids will be taken, but ONLY temporarily.

The legal process begins, and as you can see the state has ensured a parent's righst are protected, and you do get to defend the taking before a court of law.

If the process goes beyond the initial hearing, more will be explained to you by the court and/or your lawyer.

Good luck.....try to relax and enjoy the rest of the weekend....you'll be busy Monday and Tuesday, I'm sure!






Don't make duplicate posts or threads, and don't keep asking the same question(s).

Thank you for obeying the forum's simple rules.

You can see if this consolidated thread, gets anymore answers or advice for you to use.

I'd say that everyone has given you useful information, but legal advice and guidance can ONLY come from YOUR attorney.

Now, you must wait, educate yourself, think, and make decisions.