Lien Question

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Adverse

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Hi.

It's been awhile since I posted (which is good!) and I'm not sure this is the right forum to place this question. I'm wondering what a person needs to do to place a lien against someone's personal property.

Take this situation, for instance.

Let's say someone owned a slip in a community boat dock. There are ten slips in the dock and there is no association, no agreement or by-laws governing how business is conducted. Over the years it has always been done by the general agreement of everyone in the dock.

Then, three of the owners decide they want to rebuild the dock. All but one agrees to their plan. The one that does not go along tells the one in charge, in writing, that they do not have their permission to conduct business on their behalf. They do that several times.

Those who have taken control of the dock never notify the owner of the slip about any meetings, or provide them minutes of those meetings, or respond to their request for information about what is going on.

The others go ahead and rebuild the dock any way. They tell the owner that objects that they owe 1/10th of the rebuilding cost.

Those who have taken control of the dock try to rebuild it without the objector's slip in it, but the US Army Corps of Engineers will not let them. They state that they do not care about the law or rules of the Corps. They have the majority and they will get what they want. That is all in writing or recorded.

Those in charge of the dock tell the objector that they will not have a slip in the new dock unless they enter into a contract with the dockbuilder, and pay 1/10th. The Corps says that is bunk, that the objector will have a slip in the new dock.

After the fact, after the new dock was delivered, those who took control of the dock adopt by-laws giving them power to place liens, etc. The objecting owner refuses to sign those bylaws and again states they do not acknowledge that anyone else has the right to conduct business over their personal property.

They have owned the slip for nine years, longer than all but one other owner in the dock.

The objector sells the slip to another party, that party sells the slip to another party, and that party now has it for sale. Each time it transferred free and clear, there having been no legal attempt to collect the alleged debt and no lien placed on the slip. Those who made the decision to rebuild the dock without the permission of the objecting owner are now threatening the current owner, and any future owner, claiming that slip still owns 1/10 of the rebuilding cost.

The person in charge of the rebuilding continues to send hateful letters and emails to the objecting family.

Separate to the legal issue of placing a lien, those who took control of the dock have been harassing, threatening, and stalking the family that objected. Naturally, there's been the normal defamation and slander that goes along with neighbor disputes. That family has indisputable proof of that.

So, is there any conceivable way a lien can be placed on the slip in question?

All hypothetical, of course. ;)
 
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Get a lawyer.

File a lawsuit.

Hope you win.

Then you will have a lien.
 
Just curious, do you think we are the ones who took control of the dock and altered someone's else's slip without their permission and are now trying to get money from them, or do you think we are the ones that had that done to us?
 
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For some reason I cannot get logged into the other forum where you gave a similar answer.

However, in that answer you also said I am asking a question about real property.

That's not correct. We are in the state of Missouri and slips in boat docks are personal property. They are listed with the County Assessor and we pay personal property tax on them, not real estate property tax.

The dock is on a lake owned by the US Army Corps of Engineers. Private individuals cannot own that real property because it belongs to the federal government. Like I said, the docks, and slips in community docks, are personal property.

That, in fact, is what brought me to these legal forums today, because as I searched the Missouri Statutes for information on liens, what I found was only for liens that can be placed on real property.
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Anyway, the point I am trying to get at is how can someone make a claim for improvement/alterations/changes they made to your property (real or personal) when they never had permission to do so?

Can I put a new set of tires on your car and force you to pay me for them if you told me not?

And if a person thinks they have claim, that we owe them money for doing something we explicity told them not to do, how long after the work is completed do they have to take legal action, to try to get a judgement? And, if they never take legal action, can they just keep threatening you forever?

And what limitations are there on the tactics a private individual can use to try to collect money from you? From what I can see, laws relating to collections practices only apply to businesses engaged in the collections business. One source I saw today said those laws don't apply to a creditor trying to collect a debt for themselves, but that most choose to follow those laws voluntarily.

You know what I'm talking about, those laws that say collectors can't harass you and threaten you with a lawsuit unless they intend to follow through, and call you, and keep bugging you. Can private individuals do that?
 
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Well, thanks for trying.

That case is pretty close to home, with some of the same cast of characters. Actually I've seen it before. It is about a person claiming to own a slip in a community dock when they had not done any of the required paperwork, the recording of the Bill of Sale and presenting it to the Corps, and the representative of the dock, that person being known as the permittee. The permitee was not recognizing that person as an owner in that dock and accused them of trespassing. He was right in doing that.

In our case, there is no dispute over the ownership of the slip. All of the proper paperwork has been done with the Corps.

Our dispute is over whether a private individual has the legal right to demand payment from another private individual for something done to the second indivdual's personal property without their permission, in fact, with specific written statements from the second individual that the first individual did not have their permission to do anything with their personal property or conduct business on their behalf.

As I asked you elsewhere, if I put a new set of tires on your car when you told me not to, in writing, can I force you to pay me for them? Actually it is even more strict than that, in that the Corps requires unanimous approval from all slipowners to rebuild a community dock, and those in control of this one rebuilt it without our approval, telling the Corps they would pay the entire rebuilding cost themselves.

Gotta go meet friends for dinner.
 
Get a lawyer.

File a lawsuit.

Hope you win.

Then you will have a lien.

It doesn't really matter who you are and it doesn't matter whether the property is real, personal, or mixed.

This is the way to get a lien.
 
OK. Thanks.

So those who are arfing and barfing about the freeloaders owing them money really don't have anything, since they haven't done that.

Since the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act regulates only those in the collections business, are there any laws (other than harassment and defamation/slander) that would pertain to them pestering the freeloader, claiming they owe them money, and telling others the same thing, when they have not even attempted to get a judgement? :no:

For instance, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act prohibits those in the collection business from do many things, such as threatening to sue if they don't intend to follow up, and threatening and harassing the collect a debt. Is the same true for those not in the collection business?

It doesn't really matter who you are and it doesn't matter whether the property is real, personal, or mixed.

This is the way to get a lien.
 
Nothing you have posted even remotely resembles harassment, defamation, etc.

It's a legal matter. (I've told you twice what to do about that.)

Re-reading your post, I will have to tell you also that the rule is the Feds always win.

In other words, those folks wanting a slip in a lake owned by the CoE will have to do what the bureaucrats say.

So when y'all get to court, each side better be able to show that it adbided by Corps decisions.
 
Not much to disagree with there. Still some misunderstanding, though, I believe.

1. Nothing I've said resembles harassment, because I haven't talked about the alleged harassment, stalking, threats, intimidation, coercement, fraud, attempted extortion and assaults. I have only asked about the alleged debt. I'm already in a position to handle all the other, if I want to.

2. You said to hire an attoreny, file a suit, win a judgement, and get a lien. That makes me believe you still think I am the one trying to collect the alleged debt, which is not the case.

3. I totally agree about the Corps. Our side bends over backwards to make sure we do But, iverything right, dot all the i's and cross all the t's. I've seen too many folks try to cram a square peg into a round hole when it comes to the Corps. All they get is frustrated.

When it comes to the Corps, and probably most other things, you get what you give.

It is strange that they waived the unanimous approval rule since that is a rule that hold very close to the vest. But the fact is they did, and they don't have to explain why they did, except maybe under oath in a court of law. So, it is best to do what we did, accept that, deal with it, and find a way to work through it. We have.

The question that remains unanswered is the only one I have asked, and that is:

are there limitations on what a private individual (one who has not hired an attorney, filed suit, gotten a judgement, and obtained a judgement lien) can do to another private individual concerning an alledged debt?
 
Q: are there limitations on what a private individual (one who has not hired an attorney, filed suit, gotten a judgement, and obtained a judgement lien) can do to another private individual concerning an alledged debt?

A: As long as you do not do anything illegal (stalking, etc.), there is nothing that I know of.

Obviously, if you send one certified letter saying pay the dough and there is no response. Your next step is what I have already told you.
 
OK, where's that smilie of the guy beating his head against the brick wall?

How many times do I have to say that we are not the ones trying to collect an alleged debt?

Obviously, if you send one certified letter saying pay the dough and there is no response. Your next step is what I have already told you.
 
OK, where's that smilie of the guy beating his head against the brick wall?

How many times do I have to say that we are not the ones trying to collect an alleged debt?

Okay.

In the English language, "you" is often used when giving general information, as I have done.

You asked:

Q: are there limitations on what a private individual (one who has not hired an attorney, filed suit, gotten a judgement, and obtained a judgement lien) can do to another private individual concerning an alledged debt?

And I answered:

A: As long as you do not do anything illegal (stalking, etc.), there is nothing that I know of.

Obviously, if you send one certified letter saying pay the dough and there is no response. Your next step is what I have already told you.
 
Ah hah, the deception of the written word, when you means them. ;)

So, if they send a certified letter saying, "you owe money," they may not really mean me, but just someone in general. :D
 
Ah hah, the deception of the written word, when you means them. ;)

So, if they send a certified letter saying, "you owe money," they may not really mean me, but just someone in general. :D

Now you got it!:angel
 
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