No lease for 8 years, and now we are being harassed!

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nowypynyw

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My mother has lived in a NYC HUD run Senior building for the past 10 years. Recently her health has been failing and I have become her full time caregiver requiring me to stay with her.

The Building Manager, who is also part owner of the building as I understand, claimed that I was not allowed to stay with her under HUD regulations, and refused to let me see the regulations. After some phone calls I found out that the buildings regulations are in "HUD Handbook 4350.3: Occupancy Requirements of Subsidized Multifamily Housing Programs" available at the hud.gov portal.


After printing out the relevant pages pertaining to Live-In Aids, and Adult Children as live in aids, I provided the Building Manager with a letter from my mothers Doctor stating that she requires full time care.

I was then informed in the latter part of December 2010 that my mother was not "legally" a tenant, and had no right to a lease. I informed the building manager that we would need a valid lease if we were to continue to pay rent.

The lease was originally issued in my fathers name alone, back in June 2000. At some point in late 2000 or early 2001, the rent was raised to fair market value because of my mothers added income from SSI Disabality, and her pension, and in recognition of the fact that she would be in cohabitation with my father.

My father was removed from the premises permanently around 2003 when he was placed in a nursing home. He passed away in July of 2006.

My mother has continued to reside in the apartment, and pay fair market rent, until March of 2011 at which time the building manager had still not complied with a valid lease in my mother's name.

At this point we began withholding the rent until such time as the Building Manager provides us a lease.

There have been several confrontations which I recorded in audio from, and several where I did not have the recorder with me, where I was threatened with arrest if I entered the premises, and in which she threatened to have us removed without obtaining a court order.

I believe she there is a case to be made where the building manager can be accused of fraud, for not informing my mother of the status of her lease within an appropriate time after my fathers leaving, or passing, and reckless endangerment for trying to prevent me from providing her "live in aid" assistance.

My mother owns a condominium apartment which the BM has known about the entire time, and at any point prior to needing my care she could have moved back there with much less difficulty.

Her medical conditions now include early stages Alzheimer's, renal disease, diabetes, and severe arthritis. She was retired on disability in 1999/2000.

If my mother is not eligible for a lease, why was she charged fair market value rent for 7 to 8 years after the lease holder was removed.

Why were the rent bills changed to be addressed to her rather than to my father, the lease holder?

Had my mother been asked to leave, she might have been living with me in the condominium where her medical issues and change of mental status would have been caught sooner, and we would have approximately $80,000 saved in back rent.

At this point I and my mother have dealt with several month of emotional pain and anguish that could had been mitigated had this building manager simply done her job at any point in the 8 years in question.

I would like this BM to be held responsible for what is at the very least, gross incompetence, in not outright fraud.

Do we have a case to recover any of the back rent paid without a lease, and possible damages for the contribution to my mothers condition that the BM's negligence caused?

Can I get an order of protection to keep her from harassing us until she decides to either give us a lease or evict us?
 
Did you research at all if NYS allows rent withholding and under what circumstances that can be done? Withholding rent may have just set you up for an eviction you wont win
 
Your reasons to withhold rent won't wash.
Give that up.
Your mother had a lease.
She has a lease.
She was allowed to stay and paid rent.
She had a statutory month to month lease.
She still holds that lease.




The landlord could have been correct about your habitancy, however.



You need a lawyer.
Mom needs to see if the landlord will take the back rent.
Pay it, or leave.
Mom is ill.

Stop fighting.
This is you fighting.
Stop it.
You're gonna regret it.



Pay the rent or take mom to her condo that you're inhabiting.

Mom needs care, quiet, peace, and love.

She gave it to you.

You give it to her, please!
 
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I was then informed in the latter part of December 2010 that my mother was not "legally" a tenant, and had no right to a lease. I informed the building manager that we would need a valid lease if we were to continue to pay rent.

Statements like that are red flags that let you know you are talking to the WRONG person. That is false in a ton of ways.

My mother has continued to reside in the apartment, and pay fair market rent, until March of 2011 at which time the building manager had still not complied with a valid lease in my mother's name.

You don't need a printed lease with mom's name on it. Mom is a month to month tenant with full tenant's rights, and the landlord has the same obligations to her as any other tenant. You don't need to demand a piece of paper.

At this point we began withholding the rent until such time as the Building Manager provides us a lease.

You don't want to do that. You should pay your rent immediately. By not paying you are giving the landlord grounds to evict your mom. Withholding rent in this case is counterproductive.

There have been several confrontations which I recorded in audio from, and several where I did not have the recorder with me, where I was threatened with arrest if I entered the premises, and in which she threatened to have us removed without obtaining a court order.

Again, this is a good indication that you are not dealing with the right person.

I believe she there is a case to be made where the building manager can be accused of fraud, for not informing my mother of the status of her lease within an appropriate time after my fathers leaving, or passing, and reckless endangerment for trying to prevent me from providing her "live in aid" assistance.

No, there is no fraud here. Mom was a legal tenant and her lease became a month to month lease when the original term expired. It does not matter that the original lease was only in your father's name. Mom is a legal tenant.

If my mother is not eligible for a lease, why was she charged fair market value rent for 7 to 8 years after the lease holder was removed.

The landlord does not have to give her a new lease, but she is still a month to month tenant. She has been charged the rent because she has been living there- and the fact that she has been paying rent all this time pretty much defeats the argument that she is not a tenant.

I would like this BM to be held responsible for what is at the very least, gross incompetence, in not outright fraud.

From what you describe, it sounds like the only thing this building manager is guilty of is being stupid. Sadly, that is not illegal.

Do we have a case to recover any of the back rent paid without a lease, and possible damages for the contribution to my mothers condition that the BM's negligence caused?

No way. Not a chance.

Can I get an order of protection to keep her from harassing us until she decides to either give us a lease or evict us?

You can seek one, but you will need a convincing reason for the order. Nothing you have said here sounds like it would justify such an order.
 
Thank you for your replies.

I am working to get mom back to her condo. So far I have been served no papers on any account.

Is there nothing I can do to make this woman accountable for what she has done to my family and me? I've spent the last 5 month in constant stress because of the actions she initiated. I'm also being forced to leave my part time job in the building because of the tension she has caused.

I'm being asked to resign, but it really and there is no official word on her behalf, but it's one of those situations where they don't want her to cause them any more problems.

I can't believe some one can make people so miserable, and cause such problems, and still be left in power.
 
Thank you for your replies.

I am working to get mom back to her condo.




I'm being asked to resign, but it really and there is no official word on her behalf, but it's one of those situations where they don't want her to cause them any more problems.


I can't believe some one can make people so miserable, and cause such problems, and still be left in power.




Oh yes, OP, one person can make millions of people miserable.

That person resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
 
Statements like that are red flags that let you know you are talking to the WRONG person. That is false in a ton of ways.

Again, this is a good indication that you are not dealing with the right person.

Do you have any insights of who I can talk to, to go over her head? Or report this behavior to?

This woman is wealthy and part owner of the building. She "works" as an employee of HUD here, but proudly proclaims that she takes no salary for it.

She was almost cited for keeping the air conditioning off in the common areas. The report came from the elevator repair man who was constantly being called to reset the elevators due to overheat.

She has had her maintenance crew go around and unscrew every other light bulb in the common areas resulting in dark hallways that many tenets have complained about, to each other. They are afraid to call HUD on this.

She showed up at, and basically had disbanded, an attempt at a tenants association meeting, which is direct violation of HUD regulations.

She has also takes property from the apartments of the deceased, or those placed into permanent nursing home care, which she has had the maintenance men either hide in the basement, or if it is "nice" enough, she has had brought to her home several blocks away.

A lot of this is stuff I've seen first hand, but most of the buildings tenants are terrified of her and let her get away with whatever she wants.

I'm getting my mom out of the situation, but having worked in the nutrition program here for 5 years, which is run by a separate agency, I have become friends with many of the people here. I tell people I have 150 "grandma's".
If I can do anything to get this woman removed from power I can do them one last service before mom and me move on.

You don't need a printed lease with mom's name on it. Mom is a month to month tenant with full tenant's rights, and the landlord has the same obligations to her as any other tenant. You don't need to demand a piece of paper.

...No, there is no fraud here. Mom was a legal tenant and her lease became a month to month lease when the original term expired. It does not matter that the original lease was only in your father's name. Mom is a legal tenant.

...The landlord does not have to give her a new lease, but she is still a month to month tenant. She has been charged the rent because she has been living there- and the fact that she has been paying rent all this time pretty much defeats the argument that she is not a tenant.

So isn't there something wrong with her telling me that mom "is here illegally" and "has no right to a lease"? Isn't it violating some law to tell me that? I have recorded her saying those things to me along with denying me the right the right to know what regulations she claims I was breaking.

I also gave her a note from my mother's doctor of 15 years saying that she requires full time care. I can get all her notes from all my mothers doctors to sing my praises on the level of care I am providing her. Under the HUD regulations I was denied the right to see, but got a hold of anyway, it clearly states that a tenant is entitled to an live-in aid if needed, and that an adult living child can act as that live-in aid.

Her misinforming me of this as a HUD employee, isn't fraud on her part?
At the very least, it should be gross incompetence at her job to have caused this issue in this manner?

And isn't her attempt to prevent me from providing live-in aid service that my mothers doctors have deemed necessary, as well as HUD regulation expressly allow, endangering the health and welfare of my mother?


You don't want to do that. You should pay your rent immediately. By not paying you are giving the landlord grounds to evict your mom. Withholding rent in this case is counterproductive.

What is my worst case scenario here? Mom royally screwed up her, and my, finances when her Alzheimer's began to manifest. She is still very high functioning. Good enough to fool casual experts. But even with my meager checks, which thanks to this situation I will receive the last one of in mid May, we were working at a deficit every month.

I've been using the rent money to fix up her condo and make it handicap accessible. If a court orders it, my family has agreed to pay the back rent (although they won't do much to help us otherwise.)

As I understand it, I will have 30 days from notice of a court ordered eviction to answer and/or vacate the premises. She's not allowed to change the locks or deny us access to the apartment until after that period. I'm getting mom back to the condo which cut the expenses enough to put us well into the black, even with the loss of my income.

I'm worried that she will make good on the threat to have me arrested and charge me with trespassing. She's obviously been completely unscrupulousness in every other way, so I don't imagine anything she can get away with that she won't try.

The condo is almost ready I could relocate mom in 30 days if necessary, but I could use 2-3 more month of work on it to fully refurbish it so it would be more than just survivable.
 
if you have all the recordings you may be able to sue for emotional distress check your state laws and i would contact a lawyer about all this.. lawyers know laws i wouldn't take advice from strangers to complete heart. Alot of lawyers offer free consultations.
 
Do you have any insights of who I can talk to, to go over her head? Or report this behavior to?

You describe her as the building manager- that means there is another landlord/owner in the picture. If you can't figure out who that is then the person you should be speaking with is an attorney or a judge.

If I can do anything to get this woman removed from power I can do them one last service before mom and me move on.

A well planned lawsuit just might do that.

So isn't there something wrong with her telling me that mom "is here illegally" and "has no right to a lease"? Isn't it violating some law to tell me that?

Nope.

Her misinforming me of this as a HUD employee, isn't fraud on her part?

Nope. It only proves that she is full of hot air.

At the very least, it should be gross incompetence at her job to have caused this issue in this manner?

Yes, but so long as nobody is reporting her she keeps a squeaky clean record as the manager.

And isn't her attempt to prevent me from providing live-in aid service that my mothers doctors have deemed necessary, as well as HUD regulation expressly allow, endangering the health and welfare of my mother?

Nope. It sounds like you have done well to care for your mother and no harm has been done. Again, if the woman is incompetent, you and the other tenants aren't doing anybody and favors by keeping all this information to yourselves due to fear of her.

I'm worried that she will make good on the threat to have me arrested and charge me with trespassing.

She isn't the one that decides who gets arrested. Absent a court order forbidding you from visiting your mother there isn't much she can do. If you are residing there with your mother then she can only try to evict you. Ignore her silly threats. If she calls police they will likely explain the eviction process to her and advise you of options as well.


If you believe this woman has committed thefts, especially against her elderly tenants, then you should talk to the victims of those thefts and convince them to report the thefts to the police. If there is criminal activity taking place and there are witnesses to her actions then that may be all you need to get this lady replaced.
 
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