No written lease, do I have any rights?

[SurfsUp]

I have lived at my current rental home for a little over a year and a half now, I share it with a woman, her mother, and daughter. I rent a bedroom for $1100/mo. We have a month-to-month arrangement and I paid all my rents in cash to the woman. She actually rents the home from another man who doesn't live in town whom I have never met.

I found her on Craigslist and we have a verbal agreement of month-to-month, and when I moved in I paid first and last and agreed to give 30 days notice before vacating. I've enjoyed living with her.

I know money has been getting tight for her because she lost her job and took a lower paying one. She has been looking to downsize and get away from her mother and we talked about finding another place together that would accommodate her 150lb Labrador and house cats.

Some months she has asked me to pay rent early because she's short on cash which is fine. I got into the habit of paying about half my rent two weeks early every month. This month, however, I had an issue and was 8 days late on half the rent (this is the first time ever), but I let her know well in advance and she said that it would be okay because she too would be late and has been late for about the last 6 months. I was a little shocked when she said that, but obviously it didn't seem to be a problem since the landlord never came by or anything and I had never heard of any problems.

I paid her on the 8th. On the 9th, she comes into my room and says she is moving out to a new place that she went and looked at and I have to be out by the 1st. To me, this is very short notice because I was not planning to move, certainly not in three weeks. I also feel like she already knew she was leaving when I paid her on the 8th and purposefully didn't tell me even though I paid my "last month" upon move-in.

When I asked her about my month I paid upfront as "last month," she said that it wasn't "last month" that I paid, it was the security deposit. I distinctly remember our agreement with no security deposit (this is a bedroom) and just paying last month in advance, with 30 days notice (which she wasn't courteous enough to give me). She says she will not get the security deposit back until the landlord gives it back to her after she moves out and that she will let me know. My bedroom has zero damage.

I am concerned he will dock her part of the house on the deposit because he does not know she has pets here and took them to a friend's house the one time he visited to do maintenance. Although I will say she does take pretty good care of the house.

I don't want to talk to the official landlord because I feel like my agreement is with the woman that I live with who I pay my rent to, and not with the landlord. Another thing that I don't know is that he might actually be kicking her out due to delinquent rent, but I have no idea.

This puts me in a terrible position time-wise and financially and I don't know if I have any rights or if there is anything I can do.

I feel like we've had a good relationship up until now but everything just happened really quickly and I don't want to be screwed or take anyone to court. I'm at the point where I want to be out of here asap and take pictures of how nice the room is and be very firm on not leaving the house until she can show me what (if any) damage my "deposit" is covering. I want the $1100 extra I paid her when I moved in or I want some kind of collateral for it. Is this unreasonable?

Someone was kind enough to post on another thread a quick link about verbal agreements, but I don't know how this works since the woman I rented from wasn't the owner.

 

[mightymoose]

You are a subtenant. Your roommate is your landlord, just as she is a tenant to her landlord. Any damages you seek will be from her, not the actual landlord.

You do not have to be out by the 1st, however the landlord is going to expect payment if you remain.

Your roommate has failed to return your last month's rent, and the only way you can address that is in court. It sounds like she doesn't have it to give, and the security deposit will be lost, so you might be out of luck in recovering that money... but you can sue her for it if you like.

You have a mess on your hands... but when it gets down to it, you do not HAVE to move until a judge orders you to. It sounds like you better start looking quick, but the landlord will have to evict you if he wants you out.

 

[army judge]

I have lived at my current rental home for a little over a year and a half now, I share it with a woman, her mother, and daughter. I rent a bedroom for $1100/mo. We have a month-to-month arrangement and I paid all my rents in cash to the woman. She actually rents the home from another man who doesn't live in town whom I have never met.

I found her on Craigslist and we have a verbal agreement of month-to-month, and when I moved in I paid first and last and agreed to give 30 days notice before vacating. I've enjoyed living with her.

I know money has been getting tight for her because she lost her job and took a lower paying one. She has been looking to downsize and get away from her mother and we talked about finding another place together that would accommodate her 150lb Labrador and house cats.

Some months she has asked me to pay rent early because she's short on cash which is fine. I got into the habit of paying about half my rent two weeks early every month. This month, however, I had an issue and was 8 days late on half the rent (this is the first time ever), but I let her know well in advance and she said that it would be okay because she too would be late and has been late for about the last 6 months. I was a little shocked when she said that, but obviously it didn't seem to be a problem since the landlord never came by or anything and I had never heard of any problems.

I paid her on the 8th. On the 9th, she comes into my room and says she is moving out to a new place that she went and looked at and I have to be out by the 1st. To me, this is very short notice because I was not planning to move, certainly not in three weeks. I also feel like she already knew she was leaving when I paid her on the 8th and purposefully didn't tell me even though I paid my "last month" upon move-in.

When I asked her about my month I paid upfront as "last month," she said that it wasn't "last month" that I paid, it was the security deposit. I distinctly remember our agreement with no security deposit (this is a bedroom) and just paying last month in advance, with 30 days notice (which she wasn't courteous enough to give me). She says she will not get the security deposit back until the landlord gives it back to her after she moves out and that she will let me know. My bedroom has zero damage.

I am concerned he will dock her part of the house on the deposit because he does not know she has pets here and took them to a friend's house the one time he visited to do maintenance. Although I will say she does take pretty good care of the house.

I don't want to talk to the official landlord because I feel like my agreement is with the woman that I live with who I pay my rent to, and not with the landlord. Another thing that I don't know is that he might actually be kicking her out due to delinquent rent, but I have no idea.

This puts me in a terrible position time-wise and financially and I don't know if I have any rights or if there is anything I can do.

I feel like we've had a good relationship up until now but everything just happened really quickly and I don't want to be screwed or take anyone to court. I'm at the point where I want to be out of here asap and take pictures of how nice the room is and be very firm on not leaving the house until she can show me what (if any) damage my "deposit" is covering. I want the $1100 extra I paid her when I moved in or I want some kind of collateral for it. Is this unreasonable?

Someone was kind enough to post on another thread a quick link about verbal agreements, but I don't know how this works since the woman I rented from wasn't the owner.

You may think you have a verbal agreement.
You don't.
The law permits no oral agreements where property is concerned.
You are considered a month to month tenant.
Your tenancy is covered by state statute.

Here is a website that reveals the finer points of such tenancies.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/before-rent.shtml

In your state (CA), The California Department of Consumer Affairs regulates tenancies such as yours.

You may have some trouble getting your deposit back, if your "landlord" becomes insolvent.
If I were you, I'd get out as soon as I could.
I don't think she'll sue you.

As far as paying $1,100 a month to rent a room, that's steep.
I think she was ripping you off.

You would have been better off in a good, weekly, hotel.
Google them.
There are many good chains that provide good, clean, safe accommodations for less.
They INCLUDE utilities, furnishings, weekly room service, and are reputable.
They usually require a $100 or $200 FULLY, REFUNDABLE deposit.

You were also foolish to pay in cash.
Have you requested and retained receipts for ALL of your payments?

You might eventually need this.
It describes the small claim process in California.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/small_claims/index.shtml

Oral rental agreements

In an oral rental agreement, you and the landlord agree orally (not in writing) that you will rent the rental unit. In addition, you agree to pay a specified rent for a specified period of time —for example, a week or a month. This kind of rental agreement is legally binding on both you and the landlord, even though it is not in writing. However, if you have a disagreement with your landlord, you will have no written proof of the terms of your rental agreement. Therefore, it's usually best to have a written rental agreement.

However, even if the agreement is oral, the landlord must give you a written statement regarding the name, street address, and phone number of the landlord or agent for receipt of legal notices; the contact information for the person who is to accept the rent; and how the rent is to be paid (for example by cash, check or money order.)55 [ Civil Code Section 1962(b) ]

It's especially important to have a written rental agreement if your tenancy involves special circumstances, such as any of the following:

* You plan to live in the unit for a long time (for example, nine months or a year);
* Your landlord has agreed to your having a pet or water-filled furniture (such as a waterbed); or
* The landlord has agreed to pay any expenses (for example, utilities or garbage removal) or to provide any services (for example, a gardener).

Any time that a tenant and a landlord agree to the lease of a rental unit for more than one year, the agreement must be in writing.56 [ Code Sections 1091, 1624(a)(3) ]
If such an agreement is not in writing, it is not enforceable.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/before-rent.shtml

 

[SurfsUp]

You are a subtenant. Your roommate is your landlord, just as she is a tenant to her landlord. Any damages you seek will be from her, not the actual landlord.

You do not have to be out by the 1st, however the landlord is going to expect payment if you remain.

Your roommate has failed to return your last month's rent, and the only way you can address that is in court. It sounds like she doesn't have it to give, and the security deposit will be lost, so you might be out of luck in recovering that money... but you can sue her for it if you like.

You have a mess on your hands... but when it gets down to it, you do not HAVE to move until a judge orders you to. It sounds like you better start looking quick, but the landlord will have to evict you if he wants you out.

Thanks for the info. It's comforting to hear I don't really need to wait on the landlord since my agreement is with the woman I live with.

It's kind of disappointing that it seems like being she is financially unsound I will lose a full month of rent I paid to her unless I go thru court, I understand is pretty hit or miss as well. She does have a state job, so who knows, maybe she will do right by me in the end, but it looks like for the next two weeks I'm on my own here, which sucks.

I don't know the repercussions for getting an eviction notice when I go to rent again in the future, but I can't pay the full house cost (around $3000) so it doesn't seem like there is any benefit to me trying to stay here by myself unless I was going to be out on the street.


Lastly, is there anything that would benefit me to do to try to get this $1000, like getting a written promise to pay? Or some other tip?

You may think you have a verbal agreement.
You don't.
The law permits no oral agreements where property is concerned.
You are considered a month to month tenant.
Your tenancy is covered by state statute.

Here is a website that reveals the finer points of such tenancies.

In your state (CA), The California Department of Consumer Affairs regulates tenancies such as yours.

You may have a trouble getting your deposit back, if your "landlord" becomes insolvent.
If I were you, I'd get out as soon as I could.
I don't think she'll sue you.

As far as paying $1,100 a month to rent a room, that's steep.
You were also foolish to pay in cash.
Have you requested and retained receipts for ALL of your payments?

You might eventually need this.
It describes the small claim process in California.

Thanks for linking that document, that was what I was going off of regarding rental agreements in California without a lease on paper. Clearly California law has provisions for verbal agreements, although not as concrete as a lease on paper. 30-days-notices seemed fairly universal. I'm originally from the great state of Texas. While Texas is a very cheap state to live in, comparatively the Bay area of California is quite steep.

It was one of those things where we always said we'd do the lease paperwork and never got around to it. You live, you learn. There's nothing to me to fear her suing me over, it just seems I won't get back my last month's rent, which a lease wouldn't necessarily have fixed

 

[army judge]

Thanks for the info. It's comforting to hear I don't really need to wait on the landlord since my agreement is with the woman I live with.

It's kind of disappointing that it seems like being she is financially unsound I will lose a full month of rent I paid to her unless I go thru court, I understand is pretty hit or miss as well. She does have a state job, so who knows, maybe she will do right by me in the end, but it looks like for the next two weeks I'm on my own here, which sucks.

I don't know the repercussions for getting an eviction notice when I go to rent again in the future, but I can't pay the full house cost (around $3000) so it doesn't seem like there is any benefit to me trying to stay here by myself unless I was going to be out on the street.


Lastly, is there anything that would benefit me to do to try to get this $1000, like getting a written promise to pay? Or some other tip?





Thanks for linking that document, that was what I was going off of regarding rental agreements in California without a lease on paper. Clearly California law has provisions for verbal agreements, although not as concrete as a lease on paper. 30-days-notices seemed fairly universal. I'm originally from the great state of Texas. While Texas is a very cheap state to live in, comparatively the Bay area of California is quite steep.

It was one of those things where we always said we'd do the lease paperwork and never got around to it. You live, you learn. There's nothing to me to fear her suing me over, it just seems I won't get back my last month's rent, which a lease wouldn't necessarily have fixed

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