Owner trying to pin damage on me

[Dom Mitter]

Jurisdiction

Massachusetts

Hi,

A couple of days ago I was driving out of a large residential building after picking a friend. While backing up in a very tight driveway, I hit a cement and stone pillar at a very slow speed while reversing. It was a very mild bump felt from the car, so I knew there would be a mild scratch/dent on my car (totally my fault) and I would have to take care of the repair myself. I drove out of there because we had an appointment somewhere. However, the building owner is now claiming an extensive damage from me claiming the bump damaged the column extensively (literally they want to re-build a 15' tall stone pillar, about 2 ft square). Upon going back and checking the building carefully, I found that three the other pillars have cracks similar to this one (the stones are cemented as an outer square layer, there is a central lead bearing column thats round), except when I hit this one, one stone fell out (probably later because on impact I did not hear anything). Anyways, do I have any legal ground to say that there is logic in saying that the pillar in question was very likely the same state as the other ones and my car hitting it did not do the entire damage. In other words, can I only pay part of the repair costs?

Thanks for any help possible.

Dom

 

[Zigner]

Report the matter to your insurance company.

 

[adjusterjack]

You can "say" anything you want to say. They can "say" anything they want to say. At the end of the day, if it takes dismantling and rebuilding the pillar to fix the damage obviously done by you, then you pay for it.

Your choice is to report it to your insurance company and have your rates go up, or pay it out of your own money to avoid having your rates go up.

The condition of the other pillars is irrelevant.

You can certainly attempt to negotiate an amount that's favorable to you.

 

[Tax Counsel]

The condition of the other pillars is irrelevant.

This is the one part of your post with which I disagree. The condition of the other pillars may indeed be relevant. If all the posts were set at the same time by the same company and all of them show similar signs of deterioration that is good evidence to show that the pillar the OP hit was quite likely in that condition, too. In that case, the issue is what additional damage did the OP do to the post that was not already there? The problem is, for both the OP and homeowner, that litigating that issue will require getting a lawyer and expert testimony if the matter heads to court, and that can get expensive. So the first things I'd want to know is exactly what damage the owner claims the OP did and I'd want to know what the cost of repairing or replacing the pillar would be. That helps establish the ball park of damages that are involved.

 

[Dom Mitter]

Thank you so much for your time. I am assessing damages first and waiting to take the next step.

 

[zddoodah]

Anyways, do I have any legal ground to say that there is logic in saying that the pillar in question was very likely the same state as the other ones and my car hitting it did not do the entire damage.

This doesn't make a lot of sense as phrased. You can and may claim anything you think is appropriate.

In other words, can I only pay part of the repair costs?

You can pay whatever you want within the limits of your financial resources (or nothing at all).

If you're looking for folks here to assess the merits of the property owners claim in an intelligent manner, that's not going to happen. That said, I concur with "TaxCounsel." The property owner is entitled to have you pay for the difference between the pillar as it existed right before you hit it and the pillar as it existed right after you hit it. Determining how that translates to $$ is a matter of negotiation or expert testimony.

What you should do at this point is report the matter to your auto liability insurance carrier and let the insurer do its job. Alternatively, you can try to negotiate a resolution with the building owner.

 

[army judge]

(01) Collision with a Lawfully or Unlawfully Parked Vehicle. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle which is in collision with a lawfully or unlawfully parked vehicle. (03) Rear End Collision. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle which is in collision with the rear section of another vehicle.

(05) Out of Lane Collision. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle which is partially or completely out of its proper lane and is in collision with another vehicle:

while being passed by the other vehicle, the passing vehicle being in its proper lane;
while passing the other vehicle, the other vehicle being in its proper lane; or
while changing or turning into or across the other vehicle's lane.
(07) Failure to Signal. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle which is in collision while failing to signal as required by law before turning or changing lanes.

(08) Failure to Proceed with Due Caution from a Traffic Control Signal or Sign The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when the operator fails to obey a traffic control signal or sign, or fails to proceed with due caution therefrom, and whose vehicle is thereafter in a collision with another vehicle.

(09) Collision on Wrong Side of Road. The operator of a subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle which is in collision with another vehicle which is moving in the opposite direction on the proper side of the roadway or center line.

(10) Operating in the Wrong Direction. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle in the wrong direction on a travel lane, one-way street, or highway, and whose vehicle is thereafter in a collision with another vehicle.

(11) Collision at an Uncontrolled Intersection. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle which is in collision with another vehicle at an uncontrolled intersection:

if the operator's vehicle enters a main road from a secondary road,
if both vehicles enter the intersection at the same time, and such operator's vehicle entered the intersection from the left of the other vehicle, failing to allow the vehicle on the right to proceed, or
if the operator's vehicle enters the intersection at a point in time later than the other vehicle.
(14) Collision While in the Process of Backing Up. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle which is in the process of backing up and whose vehicle is thereafter in a collision with another vehicle.

(15) Collision While Making a Left Turn or U-Turn Across the Travel Path of a Vehicle Traveling in the Same or Opposite Direction. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle making a left turn or U-turn across the path of travel of another vehicle moving:

in the same direction, or
in the opposite direction, and whose vehicle is in a collision with such vehicle.
(17) Leaving or Exiting from a Parked Position, Parking Lot, Alley or Driveway. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle which is leaving or exiting from a parked position, parking lot, alley or driveway, and whose vehicle is in a collision with another vehicle.

(18) Opened or Opening Vehicle Door(s). The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when the vehicle's door or doors are opened or opening resulting in a collision with another vehicle.

(19) Single Vehicle Collision. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating the only vehicle involved in a collision.

(20) Failure to Obey the Rules and Regulations for Driving. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when the operator violates any provision of M.G.L. Chapter 85, 89 or 90, or fails to obey the following regulations: the Metropolitan District Commission (350 CMR), Registry of Motor Vehicles (540 CMR), MA Department of Highways (720 CMR), MA Turnpike Authority (730 CMR), or MA Port Authority (740 CMR), and whose vehicle is in a collision with another vehicle.

(21) Unattended Vehicle Collision. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when the vehicle is left unattended and rolls resulting in a collision.

(26) Collision While Merging onto a Highway, or into a Rotary. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle merging onto a highway, or into a rotary when the other vehicle is already on the highway, or in the rotary, resulting in a collision.

(27) Non-Contact Operator Causing Collision. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle which is not in a collision, but whose actions cause the collision of one or more other vehicles.

(29) Failure to Yield the Right of Way to Emergency Vehicles when Required by Law. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when the operator fails to yield the right of way to emergency vehicles (as required by M.G.L. c. 89, § 7) resulting in a collision.

(31) Collision at a "T" Intersection. The operator of a vehicle subject to the Safe Driver Insurance Plan shall be presumed to be more than 50% at fault when operating a vehicle coming from a roadway that terminates onto a throughway and whose vehicle is in a collision with another vehicle traveling on that intersecting throughway. Regulatory Authority
211 CMR 74.00: M.G.L. c. 26, § 8A, and M.G.L. c. 175, § 113P.


https://www.mass.gov/service-detail...-when-making-at-fault-accident-determinations

Does property damage liability insurance cover me if I hit a guardrail?
Unless you have collision coverage, you'll have to pay for your own car repairs, but your property damage liability insurance — the part that's mandatory in every state except New Hampshire — covers the havoc you wreak on public property.

If the state links damage to public property with a crash you caused, expect a stern-sounding letter in the mail within a few weeks, demanding payment or an introduction to your car insurance company.

With any luck, you will have enough insurance to cover the bill. But if your coverage is inadequate, you might have to dig deep into your pockets. In several states, the minimum legal property damage liability coverage — the last number when you see coverage expressed as 25/50/5, for example — is just $5,000.

So, if you carry the minimum, it might not be nearly enough to cover the damage, especially if it's extensive or if you damaged something particularly expensive.

How much does it cost to fix a guardrail, streetlight, stop sign, etc.?
Here's what public property costs to fix, including signs, meters and fences and more, as of 2023.

1. Traffic signal: $3,000. If you happen to take one down a pole-mounted signal in Long Beach, California, replacement costs $3,000. If you also hit a traffic signal strung overhead, the Arizona Department of Transportation says the bill could be $80,000 to $100,000.

2. Parking meter: $700. After putting all the change from your car's ashtray into a parking meter day after day, shouldn't this be a freebie? Alas, Long Beach would bill you $700.

3. Guardrail: $889. The guardrail is only $50, but equipment and labor bring up the cost. For a basic, non-engineered guardrail replacement in Concord, California, this cost includes a city worker billed at $89 an hour and another billed at $73 an hour. It also includes using flatbed and pickup trucks, and materials such as wood posts, wood blocks and a guardrail end.

4. Streetlight: $5,342. In Concord, replacement of the standard 20-foot pole includes $3,000 for setting a new foundation and contracting out the work to erect the pole costs $1,150. Like the guardrail, Concord's estimate doesn't include extra costs if city workers respond after regular business hours.

5. Stop sign: $511. Like many bills, labor costs quickly add to the overall cost. In Concord, the sign is $50, but a few extra parts, some equipment and a maintenance worker billed at $73 an hour and a general laborer billed at $55 an hour increase the expense. Add in more money if you hit the stop sign at night. And no, you can't install the new sign yourself.

6. Fire hydrant: $1,000. That's the replacement cost from the Contra Costa Water District in Northern California. Some cities might try to bill you for the lost water, too.

7. Chain-link fence: $107 for 10 feet of fence. According to a report by the California Department of Transportation (Caltrans), the average cost of replacing a chain-link fence is $35.73 per meter, though prices vary, so a 10-foot fence would cost about $107. Congratulations if you damage only 10 feet of fencing, though. One Caltrans district replaced 1,968 feet of the fence — 600 meters — at $50 a meter. Total bill: $30,000.

8. Concrete barrier: $414 for a 6-foot section. Prices vary from $42 to $130 per linear foot, so at the average cost of $69 per foot, a 6-foot section would cost $414.

9. Roadside sign: $266. That's for a small one on a wood post in California, according to Caltrans. It could be a simple "Turn Ahead" sign or a more expensive two-post sign that costs $620 to replace.

10. Orange barrels. $86.80. If you buy more than five, the price goes down to $78.10. But if you hit more than five, you may have bigger issues. Bonus orange-plastic buy: Traffic cones are $18.50.

What happens when you damage public property?