PM not pulling weight-tenant bounced deposit check!

[HelpNewLandlord]

We own a house near Billings, MT and have decided to put it up for rent due to a change of location of my employer. We will be moving back in about 3 years and are madly in love with the home we've created.

We hired a property management agency to handle it all but will be in the area for about 3 months.

The PM accepted a couple on 8 Sep and we authorized the tenants to have a move-in date of 15 Sep at which time first month's rent was due and we agreed for the security deposit to be paid along with October's rent. My husband knows who they are through mutual friends but is in no way "friends" with them. What we do know is that they seem to be good people and have decent jobs so we were excited that we knew something about them from people we trust. They're several years older than my husband and I and that also gave us a bit of the warm fuzzies-there's an expectation of responsibility that comes with age- wow, we were so wrong.

Somehow the tenants got our phone number, and I received a frantic call tonight (20 Sep) from them telling me that the personal check they wrote to the agency on the 15th will not clear due to an accidental double car payment- I feel bad for their mistake but told them that they need to contact the PM ASAP and let him know, I don't know what she (wife) was thinking by calling me. The check hasn't even been processed yet. They haven't moved any of their household items into the house, that is scheduled to begin tomorrow morning.

It specifically states in the application/agreement provided by the PM that first month's rent and security deposit must be paid by cashier's check or money order. I don't know what happened there, why would they take a personal check when it's against their policy?

The tenant offered me a significantly lower amount of cash "right now", for what? I don't know. I explained that even though we are the owners, we contracted with the agency to handle all financial transactions, etc...that prompted begging for me to pay to get out of my contract with the PM and have them just pay me directly for the duration of the lease. Are you kidding me!? Unbelievable. I told them that they really need to take this up with the agency and that it was all out of my hands. I'm so shocked right now.

Is this all grounds for them to be terminated from the "lease"? We still haven't been able to get a copy of the signed lease from the PM- he's always out of the office and apparently none of the other agents can help us- which I find really unprofessional and unnerving.

It does state in a copy of our contract with the PM that upon receipt of deposit and first month's rent, they (tenants) and the PM's agency have entered into the lease. So, even though the agency received the check, no funds have been paid. I'm not very familiar with a whole lot of legal stuff, but in my mind, that screams INVALID. Am I wrong?

Another major issue- when talking to the tenant, she kept referring to the payment that she made on the 15th as the "security deposit" and I told her that the agreement was to pay the first month's rent, that her payment was not the deposit and she just started going on and on about what a loser PM we have and that she's not comfortable dealing with such shady characters. Obviously we have a major communication breakdown somewhere, but this relationship is not starting out on the right foot, for sure.

The rent is 1950/month and that's not cheap…if they're cutting their finances so close that a small error in bill paying makes them bounce a check by $1300 (she told me that's how short they are), how can they honestly afford our house? That means that if we were to somehow let them pay THIS first payment along with the other two on 1 Oct, they would have to pay $5850 and that's just too much for them, it's too much for just about anyone. I know I couldn't do it and I make a lot more than either of them. I'm losing faith in my PM by the minute, but even more worried about these tenants who are going to be moving their furniture and kids into the house in less than 12 hours.

Other rental houses in our area are either almost uninhabitable or even more expensive than ours, so we wouldn't exactly have a problem finding new tenants and I don't want them out on the street, but this is business- I have to keep reminding myself that.

I don't think the PM did a very good job with the financial screening and definately not pulling their weight or earning their fees-it's only been about 3 weeks since we contracted with them.

So, is any of this grounds for nullification of the lease? If they move their stuff in tomorrow and the agency doesn't get payment, are we going to end up in eviction court if they don't want to leave?

Does anyone think that the PM's actions or lack of are grounds for us to break our contract with the agency without having to pay the 10 percent fee for the next 12 months?

I'm pissed that they would take a personal check when it explicitly states that it is not an acceptable form of payment and now they've put us in this situation. We are more than likely going to lose out on this month's rent, probably have to pay God only knows what else and we've lost out on several GOOD renters. Should we be entitled to compensation for that?

Sorry so long, and thanks for any responses. I don't know where we're at right now!!!

 

[army judge]

We own a house near Billings, MT and have decided to put it up for rent due to a change of location of my employer. We will be moving back in about 3 years and are madly in love with the home we've created.

We hired a property management agency to handle it all but will be in the area for about 3 months.

The PM accepted a couple on 8 Sep and we authorized the tenants to have a move-in date of 15 Sep at which time first month’s rent was due and we agreed for the security deposit to be paid along with October’s rent. My husband knows who they are through mutual friends but is in no way "friends" with them. What we do know is that they seem to be good people and have decent jobs so we were excited that we knew something about them from people we trust. They're several years older than my husband and I and that also gave us a bit of the warm fuzzies-there's an expectation of responsibility that comes with age- wow, we were so wrong.

Somehow the tenants got our phone number, and I received a frantic call tonight (20 Sep) from them telling me that the personal check they wrote to the agency on the 15th will not clear due to an accidental double car payment- I feel bad for their mistake but told them that they need to contact the PM ASAP and let him know, I don't know what she (wife) was thinking by calling me. The check hasn’t even been processed yet. They haven’t moved any of their household items into the house, that is scheduled to begin tomorrow morning.

It specifically states in the application/agreement provided by the PM that first month’s rent and security deposit must be paid by cashier’s check or money order. I don't know what happened there, why would they take a personal check when it's against their policy?

The tenant offered me a significantly lower amount of cash "right now", for what? I don’t know. I explained that even though we are the owners, we contracted with the agency to handle all financial transactions, etc...that prompted begging for me to pay to get out of my contract with the PM and have them just pay me directly for the duration of the lease. Are you kidding me!? Unbelievable. I told them that they really need to take this up with the agency and that it was all out of my hands. I'm so shocked right now.

Is this all grounds for them to be terminated from the “lease”? We still haven’t been able to get a copy of the signed lease from the PM- he’s always out of the office and apparently none of the other agents can help us- which I find really unprofessional and unnerving.

It does state in a copy of our contract with the PM that upon receipt of deposit and first month's rent, they (tenants) and the PM’s agency have entered into the lease. So, even though the agency received the check, no funds have been paid. I’m not very familiar with a whole lot of legal stuff, but in my mind, that screams INVALID. Am I wrong?

Another major issue- when talking to the tenant, she kept referring to the payment that she made on the 15th as the “security deposit” and I told her that the agreement was to pay the first month’s rent, that her payment was not the deposit and she just started going on and on about what a loser PM we have and that she’s not comfortable dealing with such shady characters. Obviously we have a major communication breakdown somewhere, but this relationship is not starting out on the right foot, for sure.

The rent is 1950/month and that’s not cheap…if they’re cutting their finances so close that a small error in bill paying makes them bounce a check by $1300 (she told me that’s how short they are), how can they honestly afford our house? That means that if we were to somehow let them pay THIS first payment along with the other two on 1 Oct, they would have to pay $5850 and that’s just too much for them, it’s too much for just about anyone. I know I couldn’t do it and I make a lot more than either of them. I’m losing faith in my PM by the minute, but even more worried about these tenants who are going to be moving their furniture and kids into the house in less than 12 hours.

Other rental houses in our area are either almost uninhabitable or even more expensive than ours, so we wouldn't exactly have a problem finding new tenants and I don't want them out on the street, but this is business- I have to keep reminding myself that.

I don’t think the PM did a very good job with the financial screening and definately not pulling their weight or earning their fees-it’s only been about 3 weeks since we contracted with them.

So, is any of this grounds for nullification of the lease? If they move their stuff in tomorrow and the agency doesn't get payment, are we going to end up in eviction court if they don't want to leave?

Does anyone think that the PM’s actions or lack of are grounds for us to break our contract with the agency without having to pay the 10 percent fee for the next 12 months?

I’m pissed that they would take a personal check when it explicitly states that it is not an acceptable form of payment and now they’ve put us in this situation. We are more than likely going to lose out on this month's rent, probably have to pay God only knows what else and we've lost out on several GOOD renters. Should we be entitled to compensation for that?

Sorry so long, and thanks for any responses. I don’t know where we’re at right now!!!

Your intuition is trying to warn you.
Heed it.

You do not want these people as tenants.

They are deadbeats.

Contact the PM, or anyone in the office, and tell them not to rent to these people.

They issued a bad check.

The lease hasn't been commenced.
Their failure to pay is your way out of this mess.

Make sure that NO one gives those deadbeats keys or access to your home.

Don't permit them to put their crap in your home.

Instruct the PM that you are to have the right of final review, before any lease is signed. Make sure you instruct the PM to do a credit check on any prospective tenants. Require the tenants to pay for the credit check.

If you want a beautiful home for your use in a couple years, do this. Otherwise, don't rent this home. Scum and deadbeats will destroy what you've built.

There is a reason that creature phoned you. She didn't make two car payments. She's probably four car payments behind and being evicted from the last home they ruined.

 

[HelpNewLandlord]

thanks!

Hi, thank you for your reply, it really helped get me in the right frame of mind.

Unfortunately, they have a set of keys because when they handed in their personal check, the PM promptly issued them. We have been on the phone all morning trying to get ahold of them, they're ignoring calls from the PM and texting me saying that they can't get ahold of him. How did they get my cell!? Scary and annoying, I'll be changing my number tomorrrow.

My husband is at the house right now to stop the moving company from putting furniture in the house. We are really worried that if they put anything in there, we're not going to be able to get them out in a timely manner. If they're having financial issues right now, they're not going to be in a position to hire another moving company any time soon.

The PM finally got a call from the tenants and they offered $800 right now and were told that by COB, the entire amount due is to be paid in money order or certified check. They have indicated that they are going to come up with the money.

We are still concerned, but if they pay, do we have any legal right to deny them the home? The PM is giving them until the end of the day, but like you said, my gut is warning me. My husband is adamant that they not move in and we're trying to meet with the lawyer assigned to our management agency to figure out what our rights are.

I feel terrible but this is just insane and I feel like they're trying to manipulate me. I've told them at least 20 times today to NOT call me, call the PM, but they still keep trying.

You're right about the car payment thing...there's no way a double payment would throw you that far behind unless you're paying way above your means. Again, scary.

I've had money troubles in the past, I was a wild 20-something who loved to blow money because I could and I got myself into some tight spots, but one thing I NEVER messed with was rent. EVER. If I had to go without eating, I made sure my rent was paid. Thankfully, I learned my lesson and am a responsible 30 year old and it was hard. It worries me that these people are a lot older than me and haven't figured it out yet.

Thanks for you support! It really helped!

 

[army judge]

Hi, thank you for your reply, it really helped get me in the right frame of mind.

Unfortunately, they have a set of keys because when they handed in their personal check, the PM promptly issued them. We have been on the phone all morning trying to get ahold of them, they're ignoring calls from the PM and texting me saying that they can't get ahold of him. How did they get my cell!? Scary and annoying, I'll be changing my number tomorrrow.

My husband is at the house right now to stop the moving company from putting furniture in the house. We are really worried that if they put anything in there, we're not going to be able to get them out in a timely manner. If they're having financial issues right now, they're not going to be in a position to hire another moving company any time soon.

The PM finally got a call from the tenants and they offered $800 right now and were told that by COB, the entire amount due is to be paid in money order or certified check. They have indicated that they are going to come up with the money.

We are still concerned, but if they pay, do we have any legal right to deny them the home? The PM is giving them until the end of the day, but like you said, my gut is warning me. My husband is adamant that they not move in and we're trying to meet with the lawyer assigned to our management agency to figure out what our rights are.

I feel terrible but this is just insane and I feel like they're trying to manipulate me. I've told them at least 20 times today to NOT call me, call the PM, but they still keep trying.

You're right about the car payment thing...there's no way a double payment would throw you that far behind unless you're paying way above your means. Again, scary.

I've had money troubles in the past, I was a wild 20-something who loved to blow money because I could and I got myself into some tight spots, but one thing I NEVER messed with was rent. EVER. If I had to go without eating, I made sure my rent was paid. Thankfully, I learned my lesson and am a responsible 30 year old and it was hard. It worries me that these people are a lot older than me and haven't figured it out yet.

Thanks for you support! It really helped!

You're welcome.
I own several pieces of rental property.
I hire an agent, not an agency to collect my rents.
I drafted the contract between the two of us.
I require my agent to be bonded.
My agent gets 15% of the rent he collects, plus certain expenses related to collecting the rents and servicing my tenants.


I would never rent to someone that bounced a check before they even took possession of the property.
I only accept cash, certified check, bank check, or some money orders.
I encourage cash.
I NEVER accept personal checks.








I wouldn't take a dime from these deadbeats.
They have defaulted by giving you a bad check.
You do NOT have to allow them to cure that default.

Even if they pay you in FULL today, I'll bet they don't pay you on time (or at all) next month.
They'll trash your lovely home and you'll have to evict them.
That is a lengthy and expensive process.

Evicting them is the ONLY legal way to get them out once you let them take possession.
Just say NO!!!!

 

[HelpNewLandlord]

Ok, now I've pretty much lost all faith in the PM agency. I just got a copy of the lease, now that he's finally available and it is a total joke. I'm sorry if this should be a whole new thread, but I feel like time is of the essence.

When the tenants were chosen, we were asked if they could move in "early" and we always thought was a standard practice that when you sign a lease, it's dated the day you sign it and as a tenant you are responsible for rent from that day forward. We told the PM that as long as they paid the prorated amount for Sept, we didn't understand why they wouldn't/shouldn't have access from the day of the signed lease. He said that he would add that into the special provisions. Ok, no problem.

I'm reading the section and it states that "October's rent will be paid on 15 Sept with a total balance of security deposit due by 31 Oct". So, even though they attempted to pay on 15 Sep, it really wasn't for Sep and that's just unacceptable- we made it very clear to the agency that we wanted money for Sep if they signed the lease. We had several other renters prepared to move in and pay, but these jokers were picked. So, now we're not getting any money for this month, even though the house has been off the market since 8 Sep.

Another kicker- the lease is signed by the manager and tenants, but it's dated for 1 Oct. How is this legal? How is it possible that a document signed in the "future" can be enforcable now? I spent about 12 years in the military and one thing that was always stressed was accurate documentation. Something like that would never fly.

I just called the PM and asked him how any of this was valid and he said that we told him that we allowed the "special provisions". No, we didn't. So, now he's made a huge mistake on top of everything else going on. Shouldn't the agency be held liable for all of this nonsense? We weren't a part of the lease signing and I didn't like that from the beginning, but was told that it was a standard lease, etc...I put faith in a professional organization to do the right thing.

So, I'm seeing that as of right now, there's pretty much nothing keeping us from telling them to get lost since the lease isn't even supposed to take effect until 1 Oct. Now we just have to tell the PM that we don't want to accept their payment this afternoon. What a nightmare!

 

[army judge]

Ok, now I've pretty much lost all faith in the PM agency. I just got a copy of the lease, now that he's finally available and it is a total joke. I'm sorry if this should be a whole new thread, but I feel like time is of the essence.

When the tenants were chosen, we were asked if they could move in "early" and we always thought was a standard practice that when you sign a lease, it's dated the day you sign it and as a tenant you are responsible for rent from that day forward. We told the PM that as long as they paid the prorated amount for Sept, we didn't understand why they wouldn't/shouldn't have access from the day of the signed lease. He said that he would add that into the special provisions. Ok, no problem.

I'm reading the section and it states that "October's rent will be paid on 15 Sept with a total balance of security deposit due by 31 Oct". So, even though they attempted to pay on 15 Sep, it really wasn't for Sep and that's just unacceptable- we made it very clear to the agency that we wanted money for Sep if they signed the lease. We had several other renters prepared to move in and pay, but these jokers were picked. So, now we're not getting any money for this month, even though the house has been off the market since 8 Sep.

Another kicker- the lease is signed by the manager and tenants, but it's dated for 1 Oct. How is this legal? How is it possible that a document signed in the "future" can be enforcable now? I spent about 12 years in the military and one thing that was always stressed was accurate documentation. Something like that would never fly.

I just called the PM and asked him how any of this was valid and he said that we told him that we allowed the "special provisions". No, we didn't. So, now he's made a huge mistake on top of everything else going on. Shouldn't the agency be held liable for all of this nonsense? We weren't a part of the lease signing and I didn't like that from the beginning, but was told that it was a standard lease, etc...I put faith in a professional organization to do the right thing.

So, I'm seeing that as of right now, there's pretty much nothing keeping us from telling them to get lost since the lease isn't even supposed to take effect until 1 Oct. Now we just have to tell the PM that we don't want to accept their payment this afternoon. What a nightmare!

If your husband is on the ground, he might want to speak with an attorney.
I suspect you're going to be stuck between two clowns.

 

[HelpNewLandlord]

Uhmmm Yeah. Update

Unbelievably, our Property Manager sent us an email telling me that because our situation is "too stressful", he was cancelling our contract with the company. LMAO! This was the day of my last post, 21 Sep at which time my husband arrived at the property to find that the tenants had already moved all of their belongings in to the house.

So, the PM terminated our contract, via email, and still has not notified the tenants that their lease is invalid. We contacted an attorney, but were advised that since we haven't had any "tangible" financial loss that the best option would be to accept the termination and give the tenants notice to vacate. I don't even know what "tangible" financial loss means...I did lose money, time and a chance at having good tenants.

Geez...What a hassle. I don't want to fight in court or deal with anything like that but how can a PM agency just cancel and leave us hanging with people in our house without a valid lease, especially since it was through no fault of our own? The kicker is that today I recieved a demand for fees due from the agency, hahaha. In our contract is says that if WE, the owners, terminate early than we are liable for what we would have paid. Yeah, WE didn't do anything.

I've contacted the state Board of Realty Regulation and they're helping me get the situation resolved and I got a new attorney to help us. Right now, the tenants are under a month to month with my husband and I until we get this all straightened out.

What a mess, and thank you so much for the early head's up about talking to an attorney, I was making calls when my husband called to tell me that they had already moved in. I never would have thought we would get to that point!

Sure enough, rent is due today, in one hour, and we haven't heard a peep from them...other than an email request to cut down a 200 ft long, 12 ft high, 70 year old lilac hedge due to "severe flower allergies"...gimme a break!!!!

I think I might just quit my day job and stay here Hahaha, this landlord stuff should be regulated so that amateurs like me can't get into trouble!

 

[army judge]

Unbelievably, our Property Manager sent us an email telling me that because our situation is "too stressful", he was cancelling our contract with the company. LMAO! This was the day of my last post, 21 Sep at which time my husband arrived at the property to find that the tenants had already moved all of their belongings in to the house.

So, the PM terminated our contract, via email, and still has not notified the tenants that their lease is invalid. We contacted an attorney, but were advised that since we haven't had any "tangible" financial loss that the best option would be to accept the termination and give the tenants notice to vacate. I don't even know what "tangible" financial loss means...I did lose money, time and a chance at having good tenants.

Geez...What a hassle. I don't want to fight in court or deal with anything like that but how can a PM agency just cancel and leave us hanging with people in our house without a valid lease, especially since it was through no fault of our own? The kicker is that today I recieved a demand for fees due from the agency, hahaha. In our contract is says that if WE, the owners, terminate early than we are liable for what we would have paid. Yeah, WE didn't do anything.

I've contacted the state Board of Realty Regulation and they're helping me get the situation resolved and I got a new attorney to help us. Right now, the tenants are under a month to month with my husband and I until we get this all straightened out.

What a mess, and thank you so much for the early head's up about talking to an attorney, I was making calls when my husband called to tell me that they had already moved in. I never would have thought we would get to that point!

Sure enough, rent is due today, in one hour, and we haven't heard a peep from them...other than an email request to cut down a 200 ft long, 12 ft high, 70 year old lilac hedge due to "severe flower allergies"...gimme a break!!!!

I think I might just quit my day job and stay here Hahaha, this landlord stuff should be regulated so that amateurs like me can't get into trouble!

Being a landlord isn't as easy as people make it.
There is very little money to be made in renting real estate (especially single family homes).
I only regret that you didn't ask, before you became one.

We rent about ten homes.
We do it to write down some other investments.
In essence, we want to lose money.

I would advise anyone not to rent with the expectation of a tenant PAYING your mortgage.
That's like expecting someone to pay your monthly expenses.
Never get yourself in a situation where you have to rely upon another person doing for you!
Always do for yourself.

We plan to sell our homes by next spring.
At this point, we don't care if we have to give them away.
In fact, I'm in negotiations with a couple local charities to receive them for use as battered women's and homeless shelters.

Sorry for disrupting your thread.
But, if I were you, try and get at least three months (preferably six months) rent in advance.
In the long run, you might just board the home up until you're ready to return.
Barring that, you might be better off selling it.
It isn't a home.
Without a family (like yours), its just another house.
You and your family bring it to life.
You make it a home.