Proving Child Molestation

[ghull0033]

My daughter has disclosed her father played a "touch game" with her. I have 5yr twins. Only one said it happened. She stated he took a bath with her and played the game. He also played the game on thee bed. CPS has substantiated the allegations. The father failed a polygraph test. My daughter disclosed the same story to several differnt people during a forensic interview, as well as during an interview with a pyschologist, and to myself.

However, the prosecutor has decided not to pursue charges withing 2 days of reviewing the case. The defense attorney is a former magistrate of 14 yrs in the city. I am afraid she has something to do with the charges not being filed. My question is, what protocol do the prosecutors take when investigating molestation allegations? What type of evidence is needed? The reason the prosecutor is not filing is because she cannot prove sexual intent, so how would any molestation case be able to prove sexual intent without a confession?

Thanks, a very concerned mother.

 

[Proserpina]

Sex crimes, in particular when children are involved, are notoriously difficult to prosecute successfully.

I'm sorry, but this is less about protocol and more about whether or not the words of a 5 year old will convince a jury.

Please bear in mind though that this doesn't mean the whole goes away, necessarily. If there is more evidence, the DA may decide to prosecute at that point.

 

[army judge]

It might be time to debate and deliberate some very difficult choices, mother.

I'd have a chat with a couple or three local divorce lawyers and see what I could learn.

Regardless of what others believe, mom, you have the right to believe whomever you choose.

If you believe the girls, then you might want to initiate something to protect the girls as best you can.

At least you COULD get the poor things away from that creep 50% or more of the time.

You should also see that the girls get medical care and counseling, if its warranted.

 

[ghull0033]

Thank you for the responses. The girls are both in counseling. I have requested to have a meeting with the DA and the prosecutor who was responsible for the case. I do not feel this case has been investigated to the fullest extent that it could have. I absolutely believe my daughters and am willing to do whatever I have to to make sure they are protected. At this point, CPS has ordered no visitation. Before the incident, we had shared custody. Another thing is that he pursued myself at 15yrs when he was 29. I got pregnant at 16. I was young and nieve. Now I am 23 he is 37. I know it does not have a direct relation, but it does show a pattern of behavior with this man. I did not want to get him in trouble, nor take away the father of my kids, which is why I didn't "tell" on him for the age difference. But after my daughter disclosed what happened, and I look back on the age difference, I do feel this man is a sexual predator who should have ramifications for what he did to my daughter. I just am looking for some advice as what specific evidence is needed to pursue a case like this.

 

[Betty3]

Proserpina is correct that sex crimes against children (particularly against very young children) are hard to prosecute & prove. A large part is due to there not being any witnesses - all you have is the child's testimony & whether the child can be believed & also making inaccurate statements & so forth. There are some cases that are prosecuted and the offender convicted depending on the evidence provided.

 

[CdwJava]

As one who has spent much of his career addressing these offenses, let me agree - they are difficult to prove. The children can be believable, but that doesn't mean they will stand up to cross-examination on the stand. There are many reasons why a child - particularly a young child - might say the things they do that might tend to implicate dad in wrongdoing. A good defense attorney is just as likely to find a way to portray the act in a less heinous light and something that any parent might do in the course of interaction with their children.

The interpretation of a polygraph is legally meaningless and will not be permitted to be brought up in court. A "forensic interview" can be about anything. I've seen some really crappy ones that are fraught with leading questions and improper procedure, and some really good ones. A lot will depend on the training and the experience of the interviewer. Even then, it comes down to interpretation and interpretations can be challenged ... find one other similarly trained and certified examiner to render a contrary opinion and you may have the reasonable doubt on that aspect.

I notice there is a lack of any medical evidence. While not surprising given what was described here, it is also something that the defense would make hay out of.

You can sit down with the DA all you wish. And the DA might even believe he's guilty as sin. But, if you can't make a case beyond a reasonable doubt, no amount of wishing will make it so. Most molestation cases don't go to trial much as many rape cases don't go to trial - they can be tough to make without substantive corroboration. And with only ONE of the twins stating this happened, that's a huge hole that the defense would take advantage of.

Sexual intent can be proven in a number of ways. But, playing games with young kids does not prove that. Heck, if that were the case, then I could be charged because when my kids were little we used to wrestle around and I would win by tickling them as it got them off of me. Now, a bath - with daddy being nude - is weird and certainly worthy of a second look. But, how often did that occur? Under what circumstances? WAS daddy nude?

Certainly sit down with the DA, but do not rely on a prosecution to make all things right. You might also be surprised at the number of believable accusations that turn out to be completely wrong. Keep her in counseling and do what you have to in order to protect your child, but understand that prosecuting dad is not going to change what happened and it may not come to pass at all.

Good luck.

 

[Proserpina]

Thank you for the responses. The girls are both in counseling. I have requested to have a meeting with the DA and the prosecutor who was responsible for the case. I do not feel this case has been investigated to the fullest extent that it could have. I absolutely believe my daughters and am willing to do whatever I have to to make sure they are protected. At this point, CPS has ordered no visitation. Before the incident, we had shared custody. Another thing is that he pursued myself at 15yrs when he was 29. I got pregnant at 16. I was young and nieve. Now I am 23 he is 37. I know it does not have a direct relation, but it does show a pattern of behavior with this man. I did not want to get him in trouble, nor take away the father of my kids, which is why I didn't "tell" on him for the age difference. But after my daughter disclosed what happened, and I look back on the age difference, I do feel this man is a sexual predator who should have ramifications for what he did to my daughter. I just am looking for some advice as what specific evidence is needed to pursue a case like this.

One more thing concerns me here, Mom. CPS don't have the power to change a court order or demand that Dad gets no visitation; if Dad gets a bug up his backside about you withholding visitation without a court saying you can, you might end up having to face a judge.

Get to court first thing Monday and file for an emergency hearing. Take what you've got. You are unfortunately in a horrible predicament here and though we'd like to see the "right thing" happen, we can't infringe on Dad's rights without due process.

(As an aside, I remember by Dad bathing me as a little kid, till I was about 6, when we were both in the tub. I know it's largely a preference or cultural thing, but there we go)

 

[ghull0033]

There were a few different court hearings already with CPS. The CPS case manager, DCS attorney and the GAL were all fighting for no visitation at this time. The court ordered it, which I am very pleased with. The defense attorney then petitioned for a "detention hearing" requesting any sort of visitation. That was also denied at that hearing. Now, we are looking at a fact finding hearing in December to fully determine if the children will be deemed CHINS. It may be a cultural thing to bathe with children until a certain age; however, I do not believe it is AT ALL appropriate in any way to bathe with a child who is capable of bathing themselves, especially a child of the opposite gender. During the forensic interview, the interviewer asked where their clothes were. She stated both, her clothes and her dad's clothes, were on the bathroom sink. She didn't say how often, but when asked the last time, she stated that day. She also stated they played the touch game "where people touch your privates...it's just a silly game...daddy makes me look away" on his bed. The other twin denied any touching, however, she stated that her sister and her dad would take "naps" together while she would play in the living room alone. Besides that, the child that disclosed during the interview showed clear behavior of anxiety. She kept trying to avoid the subject and would not sit still, where the other child answered every question clearly and showed zero signs of anxiousness. Also, the interview was video taped. My daughter was deemed unable to stand as a witness and testify by a child hear-say interview, with a psychologist, therefore, she would not have to be cross-examined.

I have a meeting with the DA on Nov 26th. I am first going to ask what their protocols are for investigating this type of crime, what evidence do they not have and how would they prove sexual intent in any case. I am also going to ask what they feel the purpose of a polygraph exam is. I understand that is is inadmissible in court, however, isn't it used as an investigative tool to narrow down suspects and know which ones they should pursue further, in addition to interrogation purposes? I am also going to make the point that I do not feel two days is sufficient time to fully review a case. Also, what harm could it cause to pursue this case, other than their conviction rate if he is found not guilty? I mean, for me the polygraph confirms it, therefore, I feel they should be utilizing every tool possible to get a conviction. They have not interviewed (or requested the detective to interview)any potential witnesses, they have not searched his home/computer, nor asked CPS for any of their findings. If the first forensic interview was not clear cut for them, then why haven't they requested an extended interview. I may be young, but I am college educated and I serve this city as an officer. I work two reputable jobs, I own my own home, I am pursuing a second degree. With that being said, my credibility is sufficient. His, however, is not. I know first hand what the "burden of proof" and "reasonable doubt" is all about, however, this is a sex crime, not grand theft auto. They are not going to catch the perp red handed on the scene. I truly believe the prosecutor is intimidate by the defense attorney and her history. Sorry for the soap box but I am really upset about this situation, and these kids could eventually get unsupervised visitation again, and risk being abused yet again.

 

[CdwJava]

We DO understand. However, the DA's office is not flush with money and cannot simply prosecute for the heck of it. In fact, in addition to his ethical responsibility to prosecute crimes that he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, he might run afoul of the law if he prosecutes a case knowing full well that he cannot meet the burden of proof (malicious prosecution). AS heinous crime does not suddenly make it feasible to pursue.

Plus, the SOL on this crime can be many years. There's no rush to go to trial. In fact, if they rush to trial when they are not prepared, they may miss out on evidence that could condemn him later.

I understand your frustration and desire for a pound of flesh. But, it's not as simple as you might like it to be. If you are, indeed "an officer" as you state, you should understand the intricacies and the complications involved in a case like this.

As for the review time, well, reading the case more doesn't make it any better. Two days is plenty of time to review a case such as this. That doesn't mean that more cannot be done, and it's possible that the DA might send it back to the agency for follow-up. Pursuing a case that is not complete and not winnable is simply foolish. Better to wait and make a stronger case (if possible) than to go off half-cocked and lose it now and forever.

These are difficult cases to pursue, and if you have a child that cannot be cross-examined there are other issues that can be brought up to challenge the evidence including the possibility of having such an interview suppressed. Though, I cannot be certain how it works in your state so maybe they allow such unchallenged evidence in ... I'd say it is legally problematic, but, different states have different legal intricacies in such matters.

 

[army judge]

MOM, God bless you.

Protect those darling little girls.

Who cares if they ever prosecute that pervert?

I do care that those kids are in the care of a woman that has wised up to what these evil beasts do, and I'm sad to hear what HE did to you, but I'm happy your eyes are open.

That said, keep plugging along, talking is good, and you should do that.

You might want to form a support group with others who have been had their children harmed by these demons.

You may spend lots of time in court, but by doing that, you put the demon on notice that you are wise to its evil deeds.

Shine that light on the devilish demon, mom, and protect those babies.

God bless, my prayer group has just added you to our devotions, and even before you told us, God was watching.

I'll bet one of his Angels is standing guard tonight.

 

[Proserpina]

There were a few different court hearings already with CPS. The CPS case manager, DCS attorney and the GAL were all fighting for no visitation at this time. The court ordered it, which I am very pleased with. The defense attorney then petitioned for a "detention hearing" requesting any sort of visitation. That was also denied at that hearing. Now, we are looking at a fact finding hearing in December to fully determine if the children will be deemed CHINS. It may be a cultural thing to bathe with children until a certain age; however, I do not believe it is AT ALL appropriate in any way to bathe with a child who is capable of bathing themselves, especially a child of the opposite gender. During the forensic interview, the interviewer asked where their clothes were. She stated both, her clothes and her dad's clothes, were on the bathroom sink. She didn't say how often, but when asked the last time, she stated that day. She also stated they played the touch game "where people touch your privates...it's just a silly game...daddy makes me look away" on his bed. The other twin denied any touching, however, she stated that her sister and her dad would take "naps" together while she would play in the living room alone. Besides that, the child that disclosed during the interview showed clear behavior of anxiety. She kept trying to avoid the subject and would not sit still, where the other child answered every question clearly and showed zero signs of anxiousness. Also, the interview was video taped. My daughter was deemed unable to stand as a witness and testify by a child hear-say interview, with a psychologist, therefore, she would not have to be cross-examined.

I have a meeting with the DA on Nov 26th. I am first going to ask what their protocols are for investigating this type of crime, what evidence do they not have and how would they prove sexual intent in any case. I am also going to ask what they feel the purpose of a polygraph exam is. I understand that is is inadmissible in court, however, isn't it used as an investigative tool to narrow down suspects and know which ones they should pursue further, in addition to interrogation purposes? I am also going to make the point that I do not feel two days is sufficient time to fully review a case. Also, what harm could it cause to pursue this case, other than their conviction rate if he is found not guilty? I mean, for me the polygraph confirms it, therefore, I feel they should be utilizing every tool possible to get a conviction. They have not interviewed (or requested the detective to interview)any potential witnesses, they have not searched his home/computer, nor asked CPS for any of their findings. If the first forensic interview was not clear cut for them, then why haven't they requested an extended interview. I may be young, but I am college educated and I serve this city as an officer. I work two reputable jobs, I own my own home, I am pursuing a second degree. With that being said, my credibility is sufficient. His, however, is not. I know first hand what the "burden of proof" and "reasonable doubt" is all about, however, this is a sex crime, not grand theft auto. They are not going to catch the perp red handed on the scene. I truly believe the prosecutor is intimidate by the defense attorney and her history. Sorry for the soap box but I am really upset about this situation, and these kids could eventually get unsupervised visitation again, and risk being abused yet again.

There's also another reason why the prosecutor might be more than reluctant to go ahead at this point.

If they try him, and he's acquitted, the prosecutor has used his only chance. They can't try him again for the same crime.

Remember too that family court is different from criminal court. Family court CAN restrict his access without there being a conviction.

With regards to the polygraph...well, if you can get your suspect so wound up by implying that he's failed, you may just get a confession out of him.

That said, innocent people can fail a polygraph, and criminals can beat a polygraph. That's just one reason they're inadmissible. Then you get the problem of coerced confessions.

You believe it's wrong for a parent to bathe a child of the opposite gender; I suffered no abuse whatsoever. We cannot assume that a parent bathing a child is doing something wrong. Just one more reason why it's a very difficult situation from both points of view (prosecution and defense).