Recovery of SMS messages

[MarkIV]

Jurisdiction

California

Hello and thank you for reading.
I'm an employer and next week I have a hearing for an appeal for unemployment. The former employee claims he was fired and is perjuring himself on state documents, as he actually quit. There was a text chain proving this, and of course, the phone I had at the time took a bath and died with no backup for texts. I have researched extensively and have found differing opinions on whether those texts can be obtained, and for how long Verizon keeps this data. The messages were exchanged in November 2023, and Verizon didn't give me much info, just that they won't release them to me. I was hoping for any insight, thank you

 

[welkin]

If you had the phone, you would be able to retrieve the messages using special software. To get the messages from Verizon, you would need a court order or subpoena as part of a court action. That isn't going to happen here for an unemployment hearing.

You will have to prove your case with your testimony. Listen carefully to your former employee's testimony. He/she will have to provide details of why they think they were fired. You should be able to rebut those allegations. Just don't go overboard. Be sure to have all documentation from the employee's work history (good or bad) available.

As an employer, if you disagree with the ALJ's decision, you may file a second-level appeal with the California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board (Appeals Board) within 30 calendar days from the date of the ALJ's decision.

Is this a Zoom hearing or in person?

 

[Tax Counsel]

A subpoena or summons for information to be used in an administrative proceeding is possible. They aren't just for court proceedings. It may be worth it for you to get the help of an attorney to prepare a subpoena to Verizon to get the texts, if they still have them. The attorney can also help ensure you know what you need to do to get those texts admitted as evidence in hearing.

 

[MarkIV]

If you had the phone, you would be able to retrieve the messages using special software. To get the messages from Verizon, you would need a court order or subpoena as part of a court action. That isn't going to happen here for an unemployment hearing.

You will have to prove your case with your testimony. Listen carefully to your former employee's testimony. He/she will have to provide details of why they think they were fired. You should be able to rebut those allegations. Just don't go overboard. Be sure to have all documentation from the employee's work history (good or bad) available.

As an employer, if you disagree with the ALJ's decision, you may file a second-level appeal with the California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board (Appeals Board) within 30 calendar days from the date of the ALJ's decision.

Is this a Zoom hearing or in person?

Thank you for your reply, it will actually be a phone hearing. I'm not sure what the format will be, if it will be a series of questions or if I'll be allowed to give a statement. I did prepare a very careful statement of facts just in case, but only included details of his quitting. I will share it below, please let me know if you have any pointers!

 

[MarkIV]

Sometime in October, Mr. X asked for a week off to visit his mother. I was absolutely fine with that and encouraged the visit as another employee's mother had just passed away. Once the dates of his time away were confirmed (November 4 through 9), I planned the week he would be gone accordingly for myself and my two other employees. The workday he was supposed to return (November 10), he was not on site. He called that morning, in tears, and explained that he had come home from his trip to find he had been kicked out of his girlfriend's house, had slept in his truck the night before, and wasn't able to come in to work. I comiserated with him on the breakup and he told me he would keep in touch.
The following week, there were text exchanges between myself and Mr. X in which I offered a $2k loan to get an apartment and get his feet on the ground. I also offered him day work if he ever needed it. In his replies, he stated, "I don't know what to do", "I don't think I want to work anymore", and that he was looking to move to Louisiana to be closer to his mother. He also sent an address to a potential home there that he would presumably either rent or buy.
It is not unusual for my company to have a sizeable amount of work in front of us and skilled workers are always in demand, so once it was obvious Mr. X would not be returning back to work, I made a job posting on Indeed (November 16 screenshot), and on November 20th made a hire (W4 screenshot). I kept my job posting up and made another hire on December 4 (W4 screenshot).
As I do with every skilled worker I employ, I made every attempt to keep Mr. X an employee, and I am disheartened by this situation.

 

[adjusterjack]

Seems credible. But you have no documentation of any of it so it's your word against his. California is something of a nanny state so I would expect that the benefit of the doubt would be given to the employee. Otherwise, no way to predict the outcome.

The lesson learned here is to keep better employee records. Lay a paper trail when things happen. Expect your phone to crap out at the worst possible moment so take photos of the text screen to preserve the conversations.

 

[Zigner]

If the employee claims (and the board believes it) that he moved out of state to care for his ailing mother, he may qualify for benefits without affecting your reserve account.

 

[MarkIV]

If the employee claims (and the board believes it) that he moved out of state to care for his ailing mother, he may qualify for benefits without affecting your reserve account.

I read that somewhere, that in certain instances you can get benefits even when you quit. I don't believe he wound up leaving the state, but also his statements are saying he was fired (not the case)

 

[MarkIV]

Seems credible. But you have no documentation of any of it so it's your word against his. California is something of a nanny state so I would expect that the benefit of the doubt would be given to the employee. Otherwise, no way to predict the outcome.

The lesson learned here is to keep better employee records. Lay a paper trail when things happen. Expect your phone to crap out at the worst possible moment so take photos of the text screen to preserve the conversations.

Yes, a nanny state for sure! I have told my guys that if I have to do layoffs for lack of work, that I would encourage them to file for unemployment. It irks me when able bodied guys take advantage of the system out of laziness, etc.
I've never lost an appeal, good to know it can go either way in this one. I switched sms service to one that backs up. Anyone with Textra be aware it doesn't do that.

 

[zddoodah]

A subpoena or summons for information to be used in an administrative proceeding is possible. They aren't just for court proceedings. It may be worth it for you to get the help of an attorney to prepare a subpoena to Verizon to get the texts, if they still have them. The attorney can also help ensure you know what you need to do to get those texts admitted as evidence in hearing.

I agree with all of this, but it's too late if the hearing is next week.

To the OP: How long have you known about this hearing?

 

[Zigner]

I read that somewhere, that in certain instances you can get benefits even when you quit. I don't believe he wound up leaving the state, but also his statements are saying he was fired (not the case)

"Quit" vs "fired" may be in the eye of the beholder. Don't hang your hat on his mischaracterization insofar as "perjury" is concerned. Just present your evidence.

 

[MarkIV]

I agree with all of this, but it's too late if the hearing is next week.

To the OP: How long have you known about this hearing?

I received the notice a week ago. Spent the weekend trying to recover the texts and contacting the provider. I should have explored a more solid route from the start. You are right, any evidence is due today so too late to collect it by other means. I am very thankful for everyone's insight on what I'm doing all the same!

 

[welkin]

Sometime in October, Mr. X asked for a week off to visit his mother. I was absolutely fine with that and encouraged the visit as another employee's mother had just passed away. Once the dates of his time away were confirmed (November 4 through 9), I planned the week he would be gone accordingly for myself and my two other employees. The workday he was supposed to return (November 10), he was not on site. He called that morning, in tears, and explained that he had come home from his trip to find he had been kicked out of his girlfriend's house, had slept in his truck the night before, and wasn't able to come in to work. I comiserated with him on the breakup and he told me he would keep in touch.
The following week, there were text exchanges between myself and Mr. X in which I offered a $2k loan to get an apartment and get his feet on the ground. I also offered him day work if he ever needed it. In his replies, he stated, "I don't know what to do", "I don't think I want to work anymore", and that he was looking to move to Louisiana to be closer to his mother. He also sent an address to a potential home there that he would presumably either rent or buy.
It is not unusual for my company to have a sizeable amount of work in front of us and skilled workers are always in demand, so once it was obvious Mr. X would not be returning back to work, I made a job posting on Indeed (November 16 screenshot), and on November 20th made a hire (W4 screenshot). I kept my job posting up and made another hire on December 4 (W4 screenshot).
As I do with every skilled worker I employ, I made every attempt to keep Mr. X an employee, and I am disheartened by this situation.

You are right, any evidence is due today

Is this statement that you are submitting today as evidence?

I've never lost an appeal, good to know it can go either way in this one.

So, you know how these appeals work. You better have some good outline notes in front of you because it's going to questions and answers. Don't rely on the statement. Facts and bullet points. Leave out your feelings about the matter and that you posted for new hires on Indeed unless asked.

 

[MarkIV]

Yes, I was going to send that today. If there are edits you would suggest I'd love your input.
I've never had an appeal escalate to a hearing, so that part is new to me. In past appeals it has just gone away.

 

[army judge]

Hello and thank you for reading.
I'm an employer and next week I have a hearing for an appeal for unemployment. The former employee claims he was fired and is perjuring himself on state documents, as he actually quit. There was a text chain proving this, and of course, the phone I had at the time took a bath and died with no backup for texts. I have researched extensively and have found differing opinions on whether those texts can be obtained, and for how long Verizon keeps this data. The messages were exchanged in November 2023, and Verizon didn't give me much info, just that they won't release them to me. I was hoping for any insight, thank you

What Are My Options for Recovering Deleted Texts on Android?

Depending on whether you created your phone's backup prior to losing your messages or not, you have two options for performing a recovery.

If you made a Google One backup before you lost your messages, simply restore the backup, and all your SMS and MMS messages will be back. Be warned that this involves a factory reset, but a reset is good for optimizing your phone's efficiency anyway.

In case you forgot to make a backup, all hope is still not lost. There are several Android message recovery apps on the market, and you can use one or multiple of these apps to try and potentially recover your text messages.

The exact steps to follow vary by the device you use. This guide gives you a general idea of the steps you need to follow.

Restore Deleted Text Messages With a Backup

If you have enabled Google Drive backups on your Android phone, you can restore your backup to recover the deleted text messages.

The main caveat with this method is that to restore your backup, you will need to reset your phone to the factory settings. This means you will have to erase all the content on your phone to be able to restore your lost text messages. If you choose to proceed with this method, back up the important files on your Android phone.

Then, start the reset process by launching the Settings app on your phone. In Settings, at the bottom, tap "System."

How to Retrieve Deleted Text Messages on Android

There's still a chance to recover your lost messages.

www.howtogeek.com

Recover deleted text messages on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support

In iOS 16, iPadOS 16.1, or later, you can recover conversations and messages you deleted in the Messages app.

support.apple.com

Recover deleted text messages on your iPhone or iPad

In iOS 16, iPadOS 16.1, or later, you can recover conversations and messages you deleted in the Messages app.

How to retrieve a deleted message or conversation

1. In Messages, tap Edit on the conversations page. If you previously turned Message Filtering on, the Edit button doesn't appear. Instead, tap Filters on the conversations page.
2. Tap Show Recently Deleted
   
   .

3. Choose the conversations with the messages you want to restore, then tap Recover.

4. Tap Recover Message or Recover [Number] Messages.

You need iOS 16, iPadOS 16.1, or later to recover deleted messages and conversations. You can only recover messages and conversations that you deleted within the last 30 to 40 days. If you delete a message before you update to iOS 16, iPadOS 16, or later, you can't recover that message.

Recover deleted text messages on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support

In iOS 16, iPadOS 16.1, or later, you can recover conversations and messages you deleted in the Messages app.

support.apple.com

Good luck, as you seek to recover the lost texts.

 

[MarkIV]

What Are My Options for Recovering Deleted Texts on Android?

Depending on whether you created your phone's backup prior to losing your messages or not, you have two options for performing a recovery.

If you made a Google One backup before you lost your messages, simply restore the backup, and all your SMS and MMS messages will be back. Be warned that this involves a factory reset, but a reset is good for optimizing your phone's efficiency anyway.

In case you forgot to make a backup, all hope is still not lost. There are several Android message recovery apps on the market, and you can use one or multiple of these apps to try and potentially recover your text messages.

The exact steps to follow vary by the device you use. This guide gives you a general idea of the steps you need to follow.

Restore Deleted Text Messages With a Backup

If you have enabled Google Drive backups on your Android phone, you can restore your backup to recover the deleted text messages.

The main caveat with this method is that to restore your backup, you will need to reset your phone to the factory settings. This means you will have to erase all the content on your phone to be able to restore your lost text messages. If you choose to proceed with this method, back up the important files on your Android phone.

Then, start the reset process by launching the Settings app on your phone. In Settings, at the bottom, tap "System."

How to Retrieve Deleted Text Messages on Android

There's still a chance to recover your lost messages.

www.howtogeek.com

Recover deleted text messages on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support

In iOS 16, iPadOS 16.1, or later, you can recover conversations and messages you deleted in the Messages app.

support.apple.com

Recover deleted text messages on your iPhone or iPad

In iOS 16, iPadOS 16.1, or later, you can recover conversations and messages you deleted in the Messages app.

How to retrieve a deleted message or conversation

1. In Messages, tap Edit on the conversations page. If you previously turned Message Filtering on, the Edit button doesn't appear. Instead, tap Filters on the conversations page.
2. Tap Show Recently Deleted
   
   .

3. Choose the conversations with the messages you want to restore, then tap Recover.

4. Tap Recover Message or Recover [Number] Messages.

You need iOS 16, iPadOS 16.1, or later to recover deleted messages and conversations. You can only recover messages and conversations that you deleted within the last 30 to 40 days. If you delete a message before you update to iOS 16, iPadOS 16, or later, you can't recover that message.

Recover deleted text messages on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support

In iOS 16, iPadOS 16.1, or later, you can recover conversations and messages you deleted in the Messages app.

support.apple.com

Good luck, as you seek to recover the lost texts.

Thanks for that great info! Unfortunately, because I was using the Textra app it doesn't backup to Google automatically. Now switched to Google messages to prevent in the future.

 

[army judge]

Thanks for that great info! Unfortunately, because I was using the Textra app it doesn't backup to Google automatically. Now switched to Google messages to prevent in the future.

Good choice, never too late to seek improvements.

 

[cbg]

@commentator - any advice?

 

[zddoodah]

I received the notice a week ago. Spent the weekend trying to recover the texts and contacting the provider. I should have explored a more solid route from the start. You are right, any evidence is due today so too late to collect it by other means. I am very thankful for everyone's insight on what I'm doing all the same!

For future reference, if you're going to handle HR matters by text message, you ought to preserve the messages in real time. As for the present situation, the best you can hope for is to ask for a continuance.