Stupid People and other not so bright institutions.

Sad the direction this country has taken. The show "Big Brother" is a current example of the way this country is going. The people of color have created alliance called the "Cook Out" targeting non people of color. What would happen if it was the other way around? There would be outrage in the media... I have been very blessed in life with a great wife and two wonderful kids. Last week my son was in a traffic back up. A car was stalled at the traffic light and he didn't notice it wasn't moving until he came up behind it. The light turned green, he turned his signal on to move over into the other lane of traffic. No one let him over and the light turned red. He nosed his car out to get into the lane. The car he nosed out in front of started honking and continued to honk. The lady was a person of color and started screaming at him. Calling him a white cracker boy. She continued yelling racist words at him until he was able to drive away. It was the first time he had been exposed to any form of racism.
 
Frankly, that's just idiotic. One newspaper article in 1925 used a term that is presently offensive. That's it. It was never the official name of the rock. In my opinion, since that particular student union wants it removed, they should offer to pay the cost to do so.

This is nothing like the calls to remove statues and monuments...
 
Redemptionman said:
What is the difference?
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The statutes and monuments I am referring to are the ones that were placed to honor people who promoted racial inequality in various ways. This rock wasn't placed for that reason. The rock was placed to honor Thomas Chrowder Chamberlin and I don't believe anybody is claiming he was a racist. Their only gripe is that people used to call large, dark rocks by a word that is now offensive.

Thomas Chrowder Chamberlin | Encyclopedia.com
 
Zigner said:
The statutes and monuments I am referring to are the ones that were placed to honor people who promoted racial inequality in various ways. This rock wasn't placed for that reason. The rock was placed to honor Thomas Chrowder Chamberlin and I don't believe anybody is claiming he was a racist. Their only gripe is that people used to call large, dark rocks by a word that is now offensive.

Thomas Chrowder Chamberlin | Encyclopedia.com
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Regardless of your reasoning, those who erase history are bound to repeat it.
 
Redemptionman said:
Regardless of your reasoning, those who erase history are bound to repeat it.
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Erasing monuments is not the same as erasing history.

I tend to lean towards it being a waste of resources to remove these monuments, statues, etc., but the radicals/fanatics about it make it so easy to see the other side of the argument.
 
Redemptionman said:
Regardless of your reasoning, those who erase history are bound to repeat it.
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Where the statue or monument honors some person who is not worthy of being honored I think there is every reason to take it down. We should not continue to honor, in particular, the leaders of the Confederacy. Indeed, they never should have been honored in the first place. Their cause was not just when they rebelled, and is not worth honoring them now.

Removing tokens of honor is not the same as wiping out history. We could easily replace those monuments with others that tell accurate history without honoring someone who is not worthy of it.
 
Tax Counsel said:
Where the statue or monument honors some person who is not worthy of being honored I think there is every reason to take it down. We should not continue to honor, in particular, the leaders of the Confederacy. Indeed, they never should have been honored in the first place. Their cause was not just when they rebelled, and is not worth honoring them now.

Removing tokens of honor is not the same as wiping out history. We could easily replace those monuments with others that tell accurate history without honoring someone who is not worthy of it.
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Right, you are predictable.

The temperature at which book book paper catches fire and burns,

451
 
Tax Counsel said:
So what? You too are predictable.

Can I infer that you are a fan of Jefferson Davis, General Robert E. Lee, and other Confederate leaders — i.e. traitors to the Republic — and believe them to be heroes worthy of being honored by statues and monuments?
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LOL, you assume that but that is incorrect, your emotions are showing. I would suggest reading actual books from the time period you reference not opinionated news pieces with a revisionist commentary of what times were really like back then. I am assuming you get FREE passes on breaking the terms and conditions of this site by being the resident attorney of knowledge?
 
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Redemptionman said:
LOL, you assume that your emotions are showing. I would suggest reading actual books from the time period you reference not opinionated news pieces with a revisionist commentary of what times were really like back then. I am assuming you get FREE passes on breaking the terms and conditions of this site by being the resident attorney of knowledge?
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What in the world are you talking about?
 
Redemptionman said:
I would suggest reading actual books from the time period you reference not opinionated news pieces with a revisionist commentary of what times were really like back then.
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Over the past four decades I've read quite a bit of history from the time period, including writings from both the Northern and Confederate leaders themselves. I have a pretty good idea what the Confederates were about, and it wasn't about the revisionist history the Confederates themselves started preaching in the latter part of the 19th Century and that so many Southerners today seem to believe.

As a result, I have no admiration for any of them. The Confederate leaders were not, in my view, honorable men and women. But perhaps you feel differently about them than I do.

Redemptionman said:
I am assuming you get FREE passes on breaking the terms and conditions of this site by being the resident attorney of knowledge?
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What TOS do you think I've violated? I've been at least as respectful to you as you have been to me. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
Tax Counsel said:
Over the past four decades I've read quite a bit of history from the time period, including writings from both the Northern and Confederate leaders themselves. I have a pretty good idea what the Confederates were about, and it wasn't about the revisionist history the Confederates themselves started preaching in the latter part of the 19th Century and that so many Southerners today seem to believe.

As a result, I have no admiration for any of them. The Confederate leaders were not, in my view, honorable men and women. But perhaps you feel differently about them than I do.



What TOS do you think I've violated? I've been at least as respectful to you as you have been to me.
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[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Not all southern states articles of succession referenced slavery as a determining factor of succeeding from the union. As a matter of fact when listed as a determining factor, it was usually 3rd or 4th on the list which led each individual state to draft the articles. If you think it was the main determining factor of why the Confederates succeeded then you naturally draw your own conclusion from it.

Maybe you should cross reference which parties have a history of rewriting history and where that led them. Germany and Russia are two such countries. However, I believe you think race and slavery was the main causation for the civil war. That simply was not the overall fact of the causation. I would say a determining factor but not he cause.
 
[/QUOTE]
That simply was not the overall fact of the causation. I would say a determining factor but not he cause.[/QUOTE]

Then it appears you buy the revisionist views that Confederate leaders were pushing in the late 1800s to make the Southern cause seem more noble. I don't. I've read the writings and speeches of Jefferson Davis and others and they were deeply committed to slavery and in preserving it. I find nothing heroic or honorable about them or their rebellion to warrant giving them statues and monuments. The South rejected democracy and the Constitution and were the first to fire the shots against their fellow Americans to start the Civil War. That by itself should earn them dishonor. Maybe you feel they were honorable men and want to keep the monuments to them in place. I feel differently.
 
That simply was not the overall fact of the causation. I would say a determining factor but not he cause.[/QUOTE]

Then it appears you buy the revisionist views that Confederate leaders were pushing in the late 1800s to make the Southern cause seem more noble. I don't. I've read the writings and speeches of Jefferson Davis and others and they were deeply committed to slavery and in preserving it. I find nothing heroic or honorable about them or their rebellion to warrant giving them statues and monuments. The South rejected democracy and the Constitution and were the first to fire the shots against their fellow Americans to start the Civil War. That by itself should earn them dishonor. Maybe you feel they were honorable men and want to keep the monuments to them in place. I feel differently. [/QUOTE]


Maybe you should read Lincolns writings on the subject, how do they make you feel?

In reading the original orders of succession from the states and the dates, they stand alone as to the lasting reasons why the states wanted to succeed. You are so intertwined into what the media feeds you and what google book says. I feel like we should learn from history, and work together to form a more perfect union. Unfortunately, a lot of media (whether intentional or not) choose not to do this and promote division and hate.
 
Redemptionman said:
In reading the original orders of succession from the states and the dates, they stand alone as to the lasting reasons why the states wanted to succeed.
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No, the statements made by those leading the Confederacy as to why they rebelled also count. Look at ALL the historical record rather than just cherry picking what supports the view you already have. And based on the entire record, the Southern cause was not an honorable one, IMO.

Redemptionman said:
You are so intertwined into what the media feeds you and what google book says.
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Once again you take a personal shot at me. You don't know what sources I've studied and how I've reached the conclusions I have. So stop pretending you do.

Redemptionman said:
I feel like we should learn from history, and work together to form a more perfect union.
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I do too. And I think a good place to start is rejecting the notion that there was anything honorable in the Southern cause. If we can't even agree on that much as a nation then we are not going to be able to bridge the divide we have and move toward that more perfect union.
 
Tax Counsel said:
No, the statements made by those leading the Confederacy as to why they rebelled also count. Look at ALL the historical record rather than just cherry picking what supports the view you already have. And based on the entire record, the Southern cause was not an honorable one, IMO.



Once again you take a personal shot at me. You don't know what sources I've studied and how I've reached the conclusions I have. So stop pretending you do.



I do too. And I think a good place to start is rejecting the notion that there was anything honorable in the Southern cause. If we can't even agree on that much as a nation then we are not going to be able to bridge the divide we have and move toward that more perfect union.
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Lincoln had some notable quotes and historical writings as well. Could not imagine they could be much different then things the notable southern leaders stated. In succession papers are legal documents the states submitted and I would think they would be an accurate portrayal of the legalities of succeeding from the union.

You can erase history, remove monuments, and try to rename parks/ bridges et. al. Doesn't change the history of this great country.
 

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