Verbal quid pro quo

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psaunders300

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Hello,

I entered into a verbal quid pro quo agreement with a bowling alley owner to develop and maintain a website for his business. In return for the website, he would give me bowling equipment at cost and free pro shop services and supplies. Everything was fine for a few months - he gave me a new ball and new shoes for no cost and his pro shop manager serviced 5 balls for me. But for four months now when trying to schedule pro shop appointments to get work done, the pro shop manager stonewalls me and will not schedule appointments, and he has indicated that he no longer wishes to service me.

So I wrote the owner an email two weeks ago explaining this and demanding $1400 for the balance of the website work. After a face-to-face meeting yesterday, he is refusing to pay. He offered me $200 to move his website to a new hosting company, but that is all.

I would like to sue him in small claims court, but I wanted to get some advice and guidance to see if this will be worth my time and effort as I have never had to do this before now.

Thanks for reading,
Paul
 
Sounds like a hard sell in court without a written agreement. Probably not the best route to take.

Personally, I would take down the guy's website that you developed. Unless you have a written agreement saying you have turned over the site to him, it is still your work. Save a copy of the site on your computer and I'll bet he will come begging you to put it back up. Or he'll either find a friend to re-do it (perhaps not to the quality of your work) or he'll end up paying someone else to re-do it from scratch.

What was his reason for refusal? Did he not like the work you did? Perhaps it can be rectified.

I would certainly not move the website to a new hosting company. Then you lose all your leverage. Good luck.
 
Hi FlaRiptide,

Thanks for the response. He is refusing to pay because he said he did not know there was a problem with our original agreement and that I should not have waited three months to inform him of the problem. He liked the work I did on his website and complimented me in email about it. But after our meeting yesterday, he is unwilling to do anything more than what I mentioned. He said if I did not like the agreement, that I should just "walk away" from it.

In my demand letter, I did mention that failure to pay would result in my bringing down the website, so I guess I should try to do that and see what reaction I get?

Thanks again,
Paul
 
I would say that is your best bet. Have you tried to offer a renegotiated agreement? Suggest this and if he likes the idea, this time put everything in writing.

He might not be so amiable though, now that you have already sent him a demand letter.
 
FlaRiptide said:
I would say that is your best bet. Have you tried to offer a renegotiated agreement? Suggest this and if he likes the idea, this time put everything in writing.

He might not be so amiable though, now that you have already sent him a demand letter.
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He was far from amiable...I tried to suggest making a new agreement that did not include his pro shop services only bowling equipment in yesterday's meeting and he was not receptive to the idea.
 
During your bartering arrangements did each of you refer to the actual monetary value? You may know the value of a bowling ball and his other services, yet does he realize the value of your work? Has it been explained to him that if he does not barter with you and if he were to purchase the same webmaster service from someone else it could cost $2,000 or more? (I used $2,000 as an arbitrary number).
 
FlaRiptide said:
During your bartering arrangements did each of you refer to the actual monetary value? You may know the value of a bowling ball and his other services, yet does he realize the value of your work? Has it been explained to him that if he does not barter with you and if he were to purchase the same webmaster service from someone else it could cost $2,000 or more? (I used $2,000 as an arbitrary number).
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Most of the issue is that he does not understand the value of getting a good web site. He claims that there is no value in what I did and therefore does not owe me anything. While I was designing and developing the site, I told the owner and his pro shop manager (who I bowl with) that the web site was taking me a lot more time than I anticipated and when I delivered the site to the owner, I tried to explain the value of what he had gotten, but he did not understand. However he did acknowledge the fact by giving me a new ball and new shoes for free (when our agreement was that balls would be given to me at his cost).

At our face-to-face meeting, the owner told me that he does not believe that I spent the amount of time that I did developing the site.

BTW, the total cost was around $2000, so you guessed good number. :)

Also, I brought the site down yesterday, but I have not heard from him yet.
 
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Well I received a call last night from the owner's father who deals with contract law as his business (bummer for me) and he threatened to sue me and have his lawyer go to the attorney general to bring me up on charges of extortion because I took down his web site and was demanding money.

He told me that since my original agreement with his son, the bowling alley owner did not specify any amount for my services, that I cannot put any value on the work that I did after the fact and that since his son (the bowling alley owner) provided me with a ball and shoes that he owed me no more and that our deal was done...

How accurate is he and do I have any recourse to recoup anything at this point?
 
As I am not an attorney by trade, I cannot provide that legal advise. Perhaps soneone else will answer this query for you.

Yet, from my layman's viewpoint your describing an unenforceable verbal contract. In fact it sounds like there never was a contract due to "no meeting of the minds". If neither party was clear of what was to be done and what was to be paid, then there was no clear contract.

It appears that the owner's father is blowing smoke. I'd blow it back into his face! Tell him that there is no proof of contract and that you are simply removing your own creation (the website) from the Internet.

I am assuming though that there is no reference anywhere be it by email, written document, etc. showing that the merchandise you received was for the "purchase" of the website creation.

Who purchased the domain name or was this a free url? At best, take his offer of $200 to move to a new host. At least that is money in your pocket in lieu of all the potential trouble and worry.

My advise is to walk away from this with your new bowling ball and not look back...
 
Paul,

I am hoping someone more knowledgeable will jump in.

Whereas, verbal contracts can be enforced if somehow proven. You basically did that by your own admission here on this forum. Yet, I am still uncertain about the "meeting of the minds". Typically the creation of a website is more time consuming and has the greater cost. The monthly management and servicing would be minimal. This is where I doubt the bowling alley owner understands what he is paying you for. Certainly a bowling ball and a few free services hasn't begun to pay you for the time spent to "create" the website.

I would also question the breach of contract when the guy stopped offering the services to you.
 
Thanks again for the feedback and insight, I really appreciate it!

I was also hoping someone else would weigh in on this, but if not I guess I will take the $200 and be wiser for the experience...no more verbal agreements for me. :(
 
Most of the issue is that he does not understand the value of getting a good web site. He claims that there is no value in what I did and therefore does not owe me anything. While I was designing and developing the site, I told the owner and his pro shop manager (who I bowl with) that the web site was taking me a lot more time than I anticipated and when I delivered the site to the owner, I tried to explain the value of what he had gotten, but he did not understand. However he did acknowledge the fact by giving me a new ball and new shoes for free (when our agreement was that balls would be given to me at his cost).
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Frankly, you don't have a claim to $2000. No small claims court will force them to give you services nor award you $2000 that was never agreed to. You do have a claim to the original agreement, or possibly what was renegotiated. Since those are oral agreements they can be difficult to prove, but that does not mean they are unenforceable.

What, at the time, would you and he have thought was the approximate cash value of this transaction? And since he agreed to modify the agreement to some extent and gave you balls for free and a number of free services, what would the approximate cash value of that be? Seems to me that at most he owes you the value of whatever free services he is withholding less the cost of the equipment he gave you for free.

It seems reasonable to me to take the position that he has breached your agreement, and you are entitled to withhold delivery of the website. FWIW, that is not extortion and you can feel free to snicker at that particular jibe. You might wish to calculate the difference in value, suggest he pay you that, throw in $200 for your efforts in moving the site to another host, and call it quits.
 
dee_dub said:
Frankly, you don't have a claim to $2000. No small claims court will force them to give you services nor award you $2000 that was never agreed to. You do have a claim to the original agreement, or possibly what was renegotiated. Since those are oral agreements they can be difficult to prove, but that does not mean they are unenforceable.

What, at the time, would you and he have thought was the approximate cash value of this transaction? And since he agreed to modify the agreement to some extent and gave you balls for free and a number of free services, what would the approximate cash value of that be? Seems to me that at most he owes you the value of whatever free services he is withholding less the cost of the equipment he gave you for free.

It seems reasonable to me to take the position that he has breached your agreement, and you are entitled to withhold delivery of the website. FWIW, that is not extortion and you can feel free to snicker at that particular jibe. You might wish to calculate the difference in value, suggest he pay you that, throw in $200 for your efforts in moving the site to another host, and call it quits.
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Hi dee_dub,

Thanks for the advice and information! I laughed at the guy when he told me I was blackmailing him, I did not think he had any grounds for that. He was just trying to bully me into putting the web site back up.

As far as the amount of value that I received, we even disagreed about this. In our original agreement everything I received was based off of his cost, but when we talked about value in our face to face meeting, he quoted full retail prices to me, so he was not consistent at all. I valued his side at $400 and he valued it at $500. I was given no receipts for the goods I received, so I have nothing that would establish a value.

If I had a lawyer on retainer, like he does (he has a rich daddy) I would try and pursue this, but I cannot afford to pay someone $300-400 an hour, so I am moving on.

A lesson learned for sure, in the future I will get a signed contract and make sure that I clearly state a value for my services.

Thanks again for the feedback,
Paul
 
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