In Long Beach, California. Can a bank refuse an Executor of the Will and First Successor Trustee (same person) access to the deceased's bank account ? The bank account is not specifically listed in the Trust but there's a notarized document "Assignment of Furniture, Furnishings, and Personal Effects" which in part states "I do hereby sell, transfer and assign, without consideration, all right, title and interest which I have in my personal property of every kind including, but not limited to (listing furniture, furnishings, etc. and ending with) checking accounts I now own or which I may own in the future to the (Then naming the Trust). This document is noted in the Will. The bank is requiring a court to decide. The Trust was to avoid Probate and it's a small Estate. There isn't even enough money in the account to warrant going to court. Does the bank have the right to require probate?
Wills, Trusts and Bank Accounts
- Thread Starter lesliejj
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What is the reason for the bank requiring a determination of the court? I'm sure that they gave one to you and, if reasonable, it might be difficult to argue. I don't believe that any person, especially in a position as a fiduciary such as a bank officer, wants to release money, no matter how small, without proper authorization as a matter of policy.
The bank manager said that since the bank account had only a name and not the name plus Trust written on it, it was not in the Trust. He said they do not honor Wills and it is the Will and the Assingment document that states it goes into the Trust. It is the same person that is the Executor of the Will and the Trustee. No one else is listed as Benificiary or anything else. His brother intended for him to receive everything which is why he put him in charge on both Will and Trust..
Hmmm... that's a good question. So what you are telling me is that it doesn't matter whether the title on the account was joint or not since the money will be going to the Trust, whether through the will or the Executor collecting the money and then depositing it into the Trust. What is the "assignment" document and who is doing the assigning? Do you have any idea why it was set up this way?
Regardless, my understanding is that bank accounts held in a deceased's name alone typically require probate for release. The way to avoid this is to have a POD (Payable Upon Death) form that is filled out and can avoid the need for probate.
Regardless, my understanding is that bank accounts held in a deceased's name alone typically require probate for release. The way to avoid this is to have a POD (Payable Upon Death) form that is filled out and can avoid the need for probate.
The deceased's lawyer set up the "Will" and "Trust" on the same day as the "Assignment of Furniture, Furnishings, and Personal Property" document which was a separate notarized paper to place all personal property including furniture, jewelry, bank accounts, stocks, etc. into the "Trust". The Assignment paper is noted in the Will as though a separate part of it. Why the lawyer set it up this way is beyond me. (She is a completely different story) We had assumed it was right until we tried to access the bank account. What bothers me is we have gotten a different response both times we went to the bank. First time at the bank one manager requested to see my husband's birth certificate to prove he was who was named in the documents. The second time we spoke to another manager and were flat out told they would not honor the Will and to take all documents to court for a judge to decide. This led me to believe it was up to their discretion rather than a law forbidding them to allow us access. In all other affairs everyone has honored both Will and Trust without question. What I think is sad is the court and filing costs would be more than what is in the account. Excuse the expression, it wouldn't make good banking sense to pursue in that manner.
You may want to send the manager a written letter regarding the situation, the use of attorneys, and the absurdity of it all. You may want to state that it is quite clear that it is a discretionary decision and that obviously the costs outweigh the small amount of money involved, etc., which leads you to the obvious question as to whether the bank truly wishes to service its customers. Additionally, in the event that this needs to be taken to court, you will hold the bank liable for all attorney and court costs as a result of requiring this unnecessary step.
Who knows... maybe a strongly worded letter will get you the results you seek.
Who knows... maybe a strongly worded letter will get you the results you seek.
Now that you mention it, there is a statement in there regarding them paying court costs if they should not accept proof. Hmmmm. You may have something there. We certainly have nothing to lose but the paper it's written on, the envelope and the stamp. I know the account has more than that in it.
Thank you for your time and consideration in this. I'm certainly getting an education, the hard way. Those can be the best lessons learned though.
Thank you again !
Thank you for your time and consideration in this. I'm certainly getting an education, the hard way. Those can be the best lessons learned though.
Thank you again !
Rough draft letter to bank [If you care to read]
I have come to your branch office twice and attempted to access my deceased brother's account, both times having to take time off work and travel from [home town]. I brought all documents I considered necessary to accomplish this. During my first attempt it was requested of me to show my Birth Certificate as to identify my relationship with my brother, even though I had my California driver's license, showing my name and address, and my name and city where I reside are listed in both Will and Trust. I doubt that there are other [my name] that live in [home town]. Frustrated but willing to comply, I left. During my second visit I had all documents, including my Birth Certificate, and was told since the account was in my brother's name only and not the "[brother's name], Trust" I would have to go to court and through Probate to determine my right to access the account. Considering my brother never married nor had children, I am the sole and rightful heir to his Estate and listed in his Will as Executor and in his Trust as the first successor Trustee. I believe this should show his intent to leave all to me. I fail to see what the problem is. My brother's Estate is small, as is the balance in the account. The whole purpose of the Will and Trust was to avoid Probate. I am experiencing enough emotional difficulties dealing with the loss of my brother, as he knew I would, which is why he purposely set it up to be without Probate.
I have enclosed a copy of [brother's name] Death Certificate and my Birth Certificate. I have also enclosed a copy of the Will, Certification of Trust and Assignment of Furniture, Furnishings and Personal Property, these three signed and notarized on March 1, 1996. In the "Assignment of Furniture, Furnishings, and Personal Property" document it states, " I, [brother's name], do hereby sell, transfer and assign, without consideration, all right, title and interest which I have in my personal property of every kind including, but not limited to, (then goes on listing furniture, jewelry, etc., ending with) checking accounts, savings accounts which I now own or which I may own in the future to the: [brother's name] Trust, March 1, 1996". If nothing else, it shows his intent to have "all" placed in his Trust and the Trust shows his intent to have me in charge of all his Estate. [bank's name] is the only one who has failed to honor these documents. I believe it would be a waste of the courts time, as well as mine, to go through Probate. If the courts decide the documents are sufficient, and I have every reason to believe that they are, you will be held responsible for the court costs.
I am aware that these matters are at your discretion. I am requesting that you reevaluate these documents. Please let me know your decision. You may write to me at the address above or call my wife, [wife's name], at [phone number] if you require any further information. She will be happy to help you or contact me at work should you need to talk directly with me.
Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
Respectfully,
[my name]
Brother to [brother's name]
I have come to your branch office twice and attempted to access my deceased brother's account, both times having to take time off work and travel from [home town]. I brought all documents I considered necessary to accomplish this. During my first attempt it was requested of me to show my Birth Certificate as to identify my relationship with my brother, even though I had my California driver's license, showing my name and address, and my name and city where I reside are listed in both Will and Trust. I doubt that there are other [my name] that live in [home town]. Frustrated but willing to comply, I left. During my second visit I had all documents, including my Birth Certificate, and was told since the account was in my brother's name only and not the "[brother's name], Trust" I would have to go to court and through Probate to determine my right to access the account. Considering my brother never married nor had children, I am the sole and rightful heir to his Estate and listed in his Will as Executor and in his Trust as the first successor Trustee. I believe this should show his intent to leave all to me. I fail to see what the problem is. My brother's Estate is small, as is the balance in the account. The whole purpose of the Will and Trust was to avoid Probate. I am experiencing enough emotional difficulties dealing with the loss of my brother, as he knew I would, which is why he purposely set it up to be without Probate.
I have enclosed a copy of [brother's name] Death Certificate and my Birth Certificate. I have also enclosed a copy of the Will, Certification of Trust and Assignment of Furniture, Furnishings and Personal Property, these three signed and notarized on March 1, 1996. In the "Assignment of Furniture, Furnishings, and Personal Property" document it states, " I, [brother's name], do hereby sell, transfer and assign, without consideration, all right, title and interest which I have in my personal property of every kind including, but not limited to, (then goes on listing furniture, jewelry, etc., ending with) checking accounts, savings accounts which I now own or which I may own in the future to the: [brother's name] Trust, March 1, 1996". If nothing else, it shows his intent to have "all" placed in his Trust and the Trust shows his intent to have me in charge of all his Estate. [bank's name] is the only one who has failed to honor these documents. I believe it would be a waste of the courts time, as well as mine, to go through Probate. If the courts decide the documents are sufficient, and I have every reason to believe that they are, you will be held responsible for the court costs.
I am aware that these matters are at your discretion. I am requesting that you reevaluate these documents. Please let me know your decision. You may write to me at the address above or call my wife, [wife's name], at [phone number] if you require any further information. She will be happy to help you or contact me at work should you need to talk directly with me.
Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
Respectfully,
[my name]
Brother to [brother's name]
Of course I can't give you legal advice but, as a writer and attorney, I might make the point of the letter clear from the outset. Reading the hardships may detract from the heart of your argument, which from what I see those points might be:
1) The account is so small that going to probate would cost more than the account. Thus, the actions of the bank manager make it a virtual certainty that you would never obtain the money.
2) You have provided sufficient information for the bank to make a reasonable determination that you should obtain the money without the need for probate. If the manager, who has discretionary authority in this matter, still feels the need to drag this tiny bank account through probate needlessly, you will have to take your own actions in order to recoup a needless and self-defeating expenditure.
Good luck!
1) The account is so small that going to probate would cost more than the account. Thus, the actions of the bank manager make it a virtual certainty that you would never obtain the money.
2) You have provided sufficient information for the bank to make a reasonable determination that you should obtain the money without the need for probate. If the manager, who has discretionary authority in this matter, still feels the need to drag this tiny bank account through probate needlessly, you will have to take your own actions in order to recoup a needless and self-defeating expenditure.
Good luck!
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