Anyone every filed a small claim against a car maker and how did it come out?

[Redemptionman]

Jurisdiction

Arkansas

So, I bought a new $70k truck in March of 2023 from a well known Japanese brand. Within the first month of ownership I noticed a bubble or acrylic paint had peeled off the lower right hand corner of the steering wheel. I figured well they would cover it under warranty since it has a 3 year 36 thousand mile bumper to bumper warranty. One time at 6-7k miles on the truck I was getting the oil changed and I asked the manager if they would replace it under warranty? He said that they would check it out and let me know. I never heard anything. I do not put many miles on the truck maybe 10-12k per year. I called the companies customer care team about the situation and they have determined it was outside influence and auto denied the claim. I have owned lots of this brands previous vehicles and have never ever been treated this way by their brand.

So, I said okay what can you do would you offer anything, they basically said no since it was determined it is outside influence. I said look the paint is peeling off you can see it flaking off and the plastic underneath it is a QC/QA issue and not outside influence. They still would not do anything, I got upset and lost my cool to the customer care manager but I could see he wouldn't budge and whoever this person is they must be trained to auto deny warranty claims. It is roughly a 1400 dollar repair and I have a ROCK solid complaint drafted up to send to them for small claims court. I have won against ever company I have ever filed against, but I do not want to have to get an expert and then their price claim will go up. I do not care as long as I get a judgement that covers the cost but I am wondering if I should talk with the judge first since I am not sure how he would rule in these situations. I have another court where I know I would have a 80-90 percent success rate.

I have owned 100s of vehicles from Subaru to Honda to various others and I have never really been treated this way ever regarding a new vehicle purchase. Maybe it is the state of affairs this country is in but this is is not great for the consumers. Vehicle makers produce cars and they should stand behind their warranties. I have roughly 1 year and 10 thousand miles before the bumper to bumper coverage ends. What is the best course of action?

 

[welkin]

Save yourself a lot of time, money, and effort and buy yourself a leather steering wheel cover. It will solve the problem and dress up the truck interior.

 

[adjusterjack]

What is the best course of action?

The "best course of action" is the leather steering wheel cover.

 

[Redemptionman]

The "best course of action" is the leather steering wheel cover.

What great advice I get from this forum. It truly is enlightening. I could sue them and realize that I would be victorious like have had been numerous times but I am a hobbyist mechanic with excellent tools and skills. It appears a popular upgrade is to go to a premium steering wheel from the same brand. I can swap it out for basically the cost of the part. It is 100 percent the responsibility of the company and while I would love to embarrass and defeat whatever junk law firm this company would use. The juice just might not be worth the squeeze.

I am not putting a leather steering cover on my newer 2023 truck. Thanks for the laugh though.

 

[Michael Wechsler]

What great advice I get from this forum. It truly is enlightening. I could sue them and realize that I would be victorious like have had been numerous times but I am a hobbyist mechanic with excellent tools and skills. It appears a popular upgrade is to go to a premium steering wheel from the same brand. I can swap it out for basically the cost of the part. It is 100 percent the responsibility of the company and while I would love to embarrass and defeat whatever junk law firm this company would use. The juice just might not be worth the squeeze.

I am not putting a leather steering cover on my newer 2023 truck. Thanks for the laugh though.

They are actually giving you good advice.

Jurisdiction over the Party. Have you seen the requirements of small claims court jurisdiction? You generally can only sue in the jurisdiction where the defendant resides and/or operates. That immediately removes small claims court as a remedy.

Jurisdiciton over the Subject Matter. Next, regarding your demand - small claims courts generally only provide for a lawsuit for money damages. They do not provide replacements or give orders for specific performance or those involving replacement of automobiles. Let's assume you hired someone to perform the repair and were suing for money damages. You'd first need to review the rules regarding subject matter jurisdiction.

Let's even assume you could proceed (and your better place may be to complain to the state attorney general.) It would generally involve you ensuring you had enough proof (before and after) to bring to court and also allow the court and other party the time to inspect, cross examine, etc. The above members are asking - "is this really a good use of your time?" Assuming your time was of little to no value, maybe. Otherwise, consider the unfortunate message they are trying to send. Best of luck to you.

 

[Redemptionman]

They are actually giving you good advice.

Jurisdiction over the Party. Have you seen the requirements of small claims court jurisdiction? You generally can only sue in the jurisdiction where the defendant resides and/or operates. That immediately removes small claims court as a remedy.

Jurisdiciton over the Subject Matter. Next, regarding your demand - small claims courts generally only provide for a lawsuit for money damages. They do not provide replacements or give orders for specific performance or those involving replacement of automobiles. Let's assume you hired someone to perform the repair and were suing for money damages. You'd first need to review the rules regarding subject matter jurisdiction.

Let's even assume you could proceed (and your better place may be to complain to the state attorney general.) It would generally involve you ensuring you had enough proof (before and after) to bring to court and also allow the court and other party the time to inspect, cross examine, etc. The above members are asking - "is this really a good use of your time?" Assuming your time was of little to no value, maybe. Otherwise, consider the unfortunate message they are trying to send. Best of luck to you.

Is this an actual forum that is supposed to give advice? LOL, they sell their products in my jurisdiction and operate in my state. Jurisdiction is proper and service would be too.

If I sue them in small claims then it would be for the repair costs already paid out of pocket for the repairs which would be in this case around $1400 dollars plus interest and expenses. if they fight it which I am not sure if they would then an expert would add around another 1000-1500. Again, I have done this numerous times and been successful. It could be as cheap or expensive as they want to make it.

They offer for commerce new vehicles which come with a 36 thousand mile or 3 year bumper to bumper warranty. This is a comprehensive warranty and a straight forward Breach of Warranty claim.

Geez....

 

[Michael Wechsler]

Is this an actual forum that is supposed to give advice? LOL, they sell their products in my jurisdiction and operate in my state. Jurisdiction is proper and service would be too.

If I sue them in small claims then it would be for the repair costs already paid out of pocket for the repairs which would be in this case around $1400 dollars plus interest and expenses. if they fight it which I am not sure if they would then an expert would add around another 1000-1500. Again, I have done this numerous times and been successful. It could be as cheap or expensive as they want to make it.

They offer for commerce new vehicles which come with a 36 thousand mile or 3 year bumper to bumper warranty. This is a comprehensive warranty and a straight forward Breach of Warranty claim.

Geez....

Sarcasm about not getting expertise at no cost that usually costs well into the triple digits per hour from people who choose to volunteer their efforts is usually never a good approach. And then there is the issue about what you assume and the lack of information we have here that makes your answer anything but "easy" and what you belive you may have done numerous times.

We don't have any of your documents to review.

WHO sold the car to you, exactly? Did you buy your car from the same legal entity that actually manufactures the car and is also providing you the warranty and also sold you the car? The dealer is typically the entity that sold you the vehicle. The manufacturer is usually a different entity. WHO is providing you the warranty? The first step is to look at your written agreements.

Second, is there a clause as to the places that you agreed you can sue - if it allows you to sue as opposed to agreeing to arbitration? I'm guessing there is. Is there another portion which addresses locations to settle disputes? Take a look at your agreement.

That's probably your answer. Your arguments about breaches goes nowhere until you can assert that the small claims court in the county in which you wish to sue has jurisdiction.

 

[army judge]

What is the best course of action?

If I were wearing your shoes in your unfortunate position, I'd more likely than not, ignore the thing that pester, annoys, irritates, and flumoxes you.

I've learned that by ignoring irritants, they generally disappear.

My blood pressure and heart rate remain at normal.

I smile more, frown less.

It makes my life that much more pleasant!

 

[Michael Wechsler]

@army judge - I appreciate from where you're coming, especially with a small claim about a high priced item and the ROI based on stress. But I am also sympathetic to the OP's issue which is if he buys a $70,000 motor vehicle with certain guarantees and he is correct about them (which the company is taking a different opinion), he should certainly not be expected to just walk away without the benefit of his bargain. That said.

while I would love to embarrass and defeat whatever junk law firm this company would use

For $1,400, they might not even show up - but they may have precluded this venue, making the easy local path to small claims court unavailabe. The unfortunate reality of small claims court is that there may be reforms needed (for the benefit of both parties) and better tools provided - especially for enforcement if you win and you find out the next battle to collect has only just begun. At the same time, the number of frivolous claims in small claims court is also likely to be high. There are some remedies, even not optimal:

(1) Report them to the relevant authorities, such as a state attorney general who love to prosecute consumer claims but typically those that impact many consumers.
(2) Take the claim to a class action attorney to prosecute in the event it may be a manufacturing or design defect. (Wait a long time for your money, less the law firm's cut.)
(3) Litigate in the court of public opinion aka social media.
(4) Addressing as set forth in the agreement, e.g., arbitration, etc.

By all means I encourage people who are in the right to pursue their rights and address wrongs and responsibilities. But it doesn't mean there is an easy path to adjudication and collection either. It is what it is.

 

[Redemptionman]

Sarcasm about not getting expertise at no cost that usually costs well into the triple digits per hour from people who choose to volunteer their efforts is usually never a good approach. And then there is the issue about what you assume and the lack of information we have here that makes your answer anything but "easy" and what you belive you may have done numerous times.

We don't have any of your documents to review.

WHO sold the car to you, exactly? Did you buy your car from the same legal entity that actually manufactures the car and is also providing you the warranty and also sold you the car? The dealer is typically the entity that sold you the vehicle. The manufacturer is usually a different entity. WHO is providing you the warranty? The first step is to look at your written agreements.

Second, is there a clause as to the places that you agreed you can sue - if it allows you to sue as opposed to agreeing to arbitration? I'm guessing there is. Is there another portion which addresses locations to settle disputes? Take a look at your agreement.

That's probably your answer. Your arguments about breaches goes nowhere until you can assert that the small claims court in the county in which you wish to sue has jurisdiction.

It is governed by the Magnuson Moss warranty act so I have already tried arbitration and they declined to pursue it. I am cleared to pursue my small claim and made a draft of a complaint but I am not interested in dragging their name through the mud already more than it is. Toyota is the maker and they have had a rough time of it all the war around. I can buy a replacement steering wheel which better matches my truck for around a 1 grand. That is not worth the squeeze, plus with all the class action and multiple lemon law suits they are facing in various states. They pretty much have their hands up in the air with litigation. It is sad really what Toyota has become, they use to be low price great quality vehicles. Now they are more or less no different than the big three and about just as bad quality and customer service wise.

I will probably need this bullet later if or when my truck fails or if the engine blows up since it is in that time frame for failures from Toyota. Then I would have to walk away from it and let whats left of it go back to the bank or sue Toyota or the extended warranty company to get them to fix. It seems warranties, contracts and insurance are not worth the paper they are printed on these days. They automatically decline or delay any payments anyway. I appreciate the advice and realize I should have given more background on it than I did.

 

[adjusterjack]

If I sue them in small claims then it would be for the repair costs already paid out of pocket for the repairs which would be in this case around $1400 dollars

I can buy a replacement steering wheel

Contradiction there. Did you do the repairs or are you going to do the repairs?

Do you have any written documentation as to the refusal of the warranty work or was it all done by phone? If by phone, can you name the people with whom you conversed?

 

[Redemptionman]

Contradiction there. Did you do the repairs or are you going to do the repairs?

Do you have any written documentation as to the refusal of the warranty work or was it all done by phone? If by phone, can you name the people with whom you conversed?

Yes, I can name them and it is one customer care manager in particular that makes me mad and want to sue. I took his responses personal and he deflected when it was him all along who denied the claim and continued to the deny it. Basically, said he would not do anything for me since he deemed it outside influence. Saying I basically damaged it or dropped something on it. Funny thing I have a Subaru and they replaced the clutch and the front speaker cover within the first year of ownership. If anything happens to the wife's Honda, I know that Honda will make it right. I do not understand this new approach by Toyota. They would rather deny everything than fix things under warranty and then litigate damages. It is sad really since I have owned tons of Toyota's my first car was a Celica GTS, I had a mid 90s MR2 and later a turbo Supra. Now a days Toyota wants to steal others designs and cheap out on everything. Subaru is making their GR86, BMW the new Supra and now they are going co development on the Mazda RX and new generation Supra. They need to develop their own vehicles and focus on what made them great.

Toyota has become a huge monster and have left the things that made them great behind. I was going to order the steering wheel and then I saw how easy it is to replace and I have ever tool under the sun in my tool box and the time to do it. So, it is not a big deal for me to replace it which I probably will end up doing.

 

[army judge]

It is sad really what Toyota has become, they use to be low price great quality vehicles.

Sadly, Toyota isn't the only automaker in the "cat bird" seat.

Many of the problems facing automakers lies in their foolishly choosing to build their products in third and fourth world nations, employing a lesser skilled assembly line worker base.

By the way, they build their product in troubled nations that don't have unions to keep both employers and employees working together in harmony. Unfortunately, innocent, unsuspecting consumers often suffer untold harm.

 

[Tax Counsel]

By the way, they build their product in troubled nations that don't have unions to keep both employers and employees working together in harmony. Unfortunately, innocent, unsuspecting consumers often suffer untold harm.

Most, if not all, of the vehicles Toyota sells here are actually made right here in the good ol' USA. Toyota has several manufacturing facilities in the U.S., including its largest plant in the world, which is located in Georgetown Kentucky. I wouldn't call the U.S. a "troubled nation."

It is the case, though, that Toyota's plants are not unionized. That's not for lack of effort by the United Auto Workers (UAW) union. The problem is that the union hasn't yet gotten enough workers express interest in joining to get a union vote organized. The UAW last year stated that about 30% of employees at one plant it wanted to join the Union. Toyota did raise wages last year to track raises that the Big 3 U.S. automakers negotiated with the UAW.

Tesla, owned primarily by Elon Musk has plants all over the world, but one of its principal plants is, ironically, in China which accounts for Musk's cozy relationship with the Chinese government.

The reason foreign automakers generally put their U.S. plants in the south is that southern states, which are heavily Republican, are not favorable states for union organizing. Toyota is far from the only foreign car manufacturer who produces cars in the U.S. Honda, BMW, Mercedes, and Subaru do too. With the notable exception of Honda, which has had a sizable plant in Ohio for decades, these plants are in the south because wages in the south are much lower than elsewhere and southern workers are generally anti-union, following the anti-union position of the Republican party. The Republican Party, as a whole, has long resisted laws to encourage or mandate unions.

I myself have never been a big union supporter. I support the right of workers to unionize if they want to, but not the closed shop rule that mandates that all employees must just the union once formed. I lived for awhile in the Philadelphia/south Jersey area which has a lot stronger support for unions than you find in most southern states. I also worked for a federal agency that has a reognized union, one of the largest unions respresenting federal employees. I was only a member of the union for my first year and didn't renew membership after that because I didn't see that my union dues were getting me much. That ought to be the worker's benchmark on deciding whether they should support unionization in their company: what will the union actually do to benefit them?

Federal government unions can't do a lot for employees because for the most part federal employees do not have the right to strike. Air traffic controllers who were members of the PATCO union struck during the Reagan administration. Reagan fired all the strikers who refused to return to work when ordered by the agency. That incident sent a strong message to federal employees about the risks of striking as a way of bargaining with federal government management.

I can't say that the quality of cars produced in this country turns a great deal on whether the manufacturer's workforce is unionized. I've not seen anything suggesting a strong correlation between product quality and unionization.

Personally, I think consumers are most harmed by the drive of manufacturers to cut corners where they think they can get away with it, regardless of where they make them.

However, if you want to make sure the car you buy was assembled in the U.S. it's easy to do. If the VIN starts with either a 1,4, or 5 then it was assembled in the U.S. It may have a number of foreign made parts in it, though.

 

[Tax Counsel]

Most, if not all, of the vehicles Toyota makes...

The word "makes" in the above part of my earlier post should be substituted with "sells here". I couldn't edit it after posting it, so this will have to do.

 

[Michael Wechsler]

You should be able to do so now.

The word "makes" in the above part of my earlier post should be substituted with "sells here". I couldn't edit it after posting it, so this will have to do.

Not an issue any more. I hate when that happens too. Some genius must have not addressed the defaults properly.