Being denied visitation

[tim m larabel]

Jurisdiction

Michigan

I live in Michigan.
I raised my granddaughter from birth to a yr and half. She was adopted by a couple. I felt as close to them as my children.
Last December as they were adopting them, i requested a document be signed that they would never deny me visitation. Everyone was shocked that i would say such a thing. They assured me this would never happen. Now , less than a year later, it's happening.
I am absolutely broken hearted. We had a disagreement one night. Now they are using it as an excuse to deny me visitation.
Yes it's a closed adoption. I don't care what a piece of paper says. These babies are my flesh and blood. You can take me to the junkyard if these babies are going to be cut out of my life
What recourse do i have other than praying every day for God to soften their hearts ??? Which is what I do every day.
Just absolutely devastated

 

[Zigner]

You are a legal stranger. I would suggest that you apologize profusely for any disagreement and then learn that THEY are the parents of this legal stranger, and what the parents say is law.

 

[justblue]

I live in Michigan.
I raised my granddaughter from birth to a yr and half. She was adopted by a couple. I felt as close to them as my children.
Last December as they were adopting them, i requested a document be signed that they would never deny me visitation. Everyone was shocked that i would say such a thing. They assured me this would never happen. Now , less than a year later, it's happening.
I am absolutely broken hearted. We had a disagreement one night. Now they are using it as an excuse to deny me visitation.
Yes it's a closed adoption. I don't care what a piece of paper says. These babies are my flesh and blood. You can take me to the junkyard if these babies are going to be cut out of my life
What recourse do i have other than praying every day for God to soften their hearts ??? Which is what I do every day.
Just absolutely devastated

What was the disagreement about?
Please clarify what exactly the document stated and if it was submitted to the court.

 

[tim m larabel]

No document. Just witnesses to me asking for one
Disagreement was over a phone conversation
Bottom line a disagreement. Adults usually sit down and talk about it. That's the way i was raised
They aren't talking. I feel like there's a lot more going on. But without talking, there's no way to know
Wondering if they'd talk with a mediator. Or push them away further. I was afraid of this. They have all the cards

 

[Zigner]

Please clarify what exactly the document stated and if it was submitted to the court.

I read it as the agreement wasn't signed because the adoptive mother "promised" she would never keep the child away.

 

[Zigner]

No document. Just witnesses to me asking for one
Disagreement was over a phone conversation
Bottom line a disagreement. Adults usually sit down and talk about it. That's the way i was raised
They aren't talking. I feel like there's a lot more going on. But without talking, there's no way to know
Wondering if they'd talk with a mediator. Or push them away further. I was afraid of this. They have all the cards

I mean it - apologize. Apologize profusely.
Of course, the alternative is to dig your heels in because you feel you're right and give up on seeing your grandbaby for some indeterminate period of time.

 

[tim m larabel]

I mean it - apologize. Apologize profusely.
Of course, the alternative is to dig your heels in because you feel you're right and give up on seeing your grandbaby for some indeterminate period of time.

4 mths so far. Nailed it. She came to "get an apology" that fateful night over a conversation where i was agitated over and bullying her.
I didn't see it that way
I did apologize, and when i did, she said "there, now was that so hard." To which i replied "not sure what I'm apologizing for but sure. "
She said" that's it, let's go !!". My wife jumped in and said" no we'll go. So, we left.
This was 6 mth ago.
They're still holding it against me. It was a great relationship
Can't believe they could turn on us like that.
I've seen my granddaughter and grandson twice
Thanks

 

[justblue]

4 mths so far. Nailed it. She came to "get an apology" that fateful night over a conversation where i was agitated over and bullying her.
I didn't see it that way
I did apologize, and when i did, she said "there, now was that so hard." To which i replied "not sure what I'm apologizing for but sure. "
She said" that's it, let's go !!". My wife jumped in and said" no we'll go. So, we left.
This was 6 mth ago.
They're still holding it against me. It was a great relationship
Can't believe they could turn on us like that.
I've seen my granddaughter and grandson twice
Thanks

The parents are not legally or even morally obligated to give you any visitation. At all.

Was the conversation regarding the amount of visits they were allowing? Was that it?

 

[adjusterjack]

What was the result of your issues with your biological grandson that you wrote about earlier in the year?

Grandparents rights

Please let me know if I'm posting in the right subsection. I'm having trouble with the guardian of my bio grandson here in Michigan. Can i file a petition with the court in that county. Does anybody know what the chances are of ever seeing my grandson ?? The father has alcohol and anger...

www.thelaw.com

 

[tim m larabel]

4 mths so far. Nailed it. She came to "get an apology" that fateful night over a conversation where i was agitated over and bullying her.
I didn't see it that way
I did apologize, and when i did, she said "there, now was that so hard." To which i replied "not sure what I'm apologizing for but sure. "
She said" that's it, let's go !!". My wife jumped in and said" no we'll go. So, we left.
This was 6 mth ago.
They're still holding it against me. It was a great relationship
Can't believe they could turn on us like that.
I've seen my granddaughter and grandson twice
Thanks

This all happened in 15 minutes after i arrived at my daughter's rental cottage and dinner and spend a night, which i desperately needed,

What was the result of your issues with your biological grandson that you wrote about earlier in the year?

Grandparents rights

Please let me know if I'm posting in the right subsection. I'm having trouble with the guardian of my bio grandson here in Michigan. Can i file a petition with the court in that county. Does anybody know what the chances are of ever seeing my grandson ?? The father has alcohol and anger...

www.thelaw.com

Still not seeing him. My ex lives in Alaska. She comes down once a year. If the opportunity presents it self, i get to see him. Last summer i was handing off our newest grandson that do daycare for. She had ten yrs old Frankie. He ran across the lobby and jumped up into my arms. I kissed the heck out of him. In what world is it okay to deny Grandpa time with his grandchildren. I believe in a fair and just God. They will get there's. They are punishing their children for their own personal issues. The kids should never be used as pawns !!!

 

[tim m larabel]

I mean it - apologize. Apologize profusely.
Of course, the alternative is to dig your heels in because you feel you're right and give up on seeing your grandbaby for some indeterminate period of time.

Also forgot to mention, went to my priest and confessed to him all that went on. He recommended writing a letter and ask for the gift of forgiveness.
I did and they responded with yet another charge that now im being manipulative. Someone's begging forgiveness and you come back with another charge ???
Previous to all this , we spent weekends with them, video chats 3/4 day a week. Spent the night babysitting while they went to traverse city with my daughter and her husband.
Unbelievable.
Incredibly painful. Just don't get it.
I'm told to just leave them alone. So that's what im doing. Just afraid that the no contact idea will bring them around or become the norm.
Once again, when my ex comes down, then I'll be able to see my estranged by parents, grandchildren.
From people I've talked to, happens a lot, even outside of adoption. Punishing children and grandparents for their own mental illness

 

[tim m larabel]

4 mths so far. Nailed it. She came to "get an apology" that fateful night over a conversation where i was agitated over and bullying her.
I didn't see it that way
I did apologize, and when i did, she said "there, now was that so hard." To which i replied "not sure what I'm apologizing for but sure. "
She said" that's it, let's go !!". My wife jumped in and said" no we'll go. So, we left.
This was 6 mth ago.
They're still holding it against me. It was a great relationship
Can't believe they could turn on us like that.
I've seen my granddaughter and grandson twice
Thanks

This all happened in 15 minutes after i arrived at my daughter's rental cottage and dinner and spend a night, which i desperately needed,

The parents are not legally or even morally obligated to give you any visitation. At all.

Was the conversation regarding the amount of visits they were allowing? Was that it?

In common law, grandparental visitation is a moral obligation, not a legal one.
TrestleLink - Infrastructure to Connect › Gran...PDF
Grandparent Visitation Rights Debate1 - TrestleLi

The parents are not legally or even morally obligated to give you any visitation. At all.

Was the conversation regarding the amount of visits they were allowing? Was that it?

In common law, grandparental visitation is a moral obligation, not a legal one.

TrestleLink - Infrastructure to Connect › Gran...

PDF​

[h3][/h3]

 

[army judge]

One of the MANY LESSONS life has taught me follows:

Life/fate seem to enjoy it when we OUTSMART ourselves.

No person owes anything to another person, UNLESS said individual has signed a contract committing to do any number and manner of LAWFUL, LEGITIMATE, LEGAL things/obligations.

If Bobby wants Sammy to allow him to visit with his grandkids, Bobby should never demand. In fact, very little occurs when Buddy makes demands against Charlotte, without Charlotte's consent.

Very little ever materializes when you DEMAND, attempt to FRIGHTEN or INTIMIDATE another human being. Very little that is, which allows YOU to receive that which you are demanding.

Honey lures more flies, than does bleach.

 

[Zigner]

This all happened in 15 minutes after i arrived at my daughter's rental cottage and dinner and spend a night, which i desperately needed,

In common law, grandparental visitation is a moral obligation, not a legal one.

Well, there you go. Go in with guns blazing and passive-aggressive comments roaring! That'll get you the visitation you so desperately desire and feel (with no basis) entitled to.

 

[justblue]

A grandparent has no legal or moral "right" to someone else's children. If they wish to have a relationship with said children, the GPs need to show respect for the parents. If they disrespect/disregard the parents and their rights/wishes regarding their own children, then the GPs can expect to have visitation curtailed or cut off.

I, myself, never had any problems with my children's wonderful GPs (both sets) and therefore my children had a loving and wonderful relationship with them until they passed.

 

[stealthy1]

If Bobby wants Sammy to allow him to visit with his grandkids, Bobby should never demand. In fact, very little occurs when Buddy makes demands against Charlotte, without Charlotte's consent.

Who are Buddy and Charlotte, and how are they involved?

 

[army judge]

Who are Buddy and Charlotte, and how are they involved?

Figments of my imagination to make a point.
They exist only in the mind of a decrepit, old man.

 

[Red Kayak]

This all happened in 15 minutes after i arrived at my daughter's rental cottage and dinner and spend a night, which i desperately needed,

In common law, grandparental visitation is a moral obligation, not a legal one.
TrestleLink - Infrastructure to Connect › Gran...PDF
Grandparent Visitation Rights Debate1 - TrestleLi

In common law, grandparental visitation is a moral obligation, not a legal one.

TrestleLink - Infrastructure to Connect › Gran...

PDF​

[h3][/h3]

*Legally* you are no longer the grandparent.

When the child was adopted, they became part of a new family.

You are being unreasonable. You are acting as though you have power (asserting what you think is a moral obligation), when in fact you don't.

What is very likely is that at the time of the adoption, the new parents thought you were pleasant enough, but you have subsequently crossed too many line for them. They have come to think of contact with you as a negative.

Your only hope, in this situation when neither legal nor moral obligation exists, it to kiss up to the adoptive parents. Your best plan would be too radically adjust your overbearing attitude and start acting respectfully to the adoptive parents. Grovel. They don't owe you. Take out a pad of paper and write down 100 times, "[The adoptive parents] owe me nothing. I respect and honor their rights as parents." Repeat every day if necessary.

I'm not sure what you intended to add with #11, but it's not what you think it was. Any priest worthy of their calling would be able to tell you that you can ask for forgiveness but are not owed it. The reason your "apologies" are not being accepted is that your attitude at best is perfunctory, and far from apologetic.

 

[tim m larabel]

The parents are not legally or even morally obligated to give you any visitation. At all.

Was the conversation regarding the amount of visits they were allowing? Was that it?

*Legally* you are no longer the grandparent.

When the child was adopted, they became part of a new family.

You are being unreasonable. You are acting as though you have power (asserting what you think is a moral obligation), when in fact you don't.

What is very likely is that at the time of the adoption, the new parents thought you were pleasant enough, but you have subsequently crossed too many line for them. They have come to think of contact with you as a negative.

Your only hope, in this situation when neither legal nor moral obligation exists, it to kiss up to the adoptive parents. Your best plan would be too radically adjust your overbearing attitude and start acting respectfully to the adoptive parents. Grovel. They don't owe you. Take out a pad of paper and write down 100 times, "[The adoptive parents] owe me nothing. I respect and honor their rights as parents." Repeat every day if necessary.

I'm not sure what you intended to add with #11, but it's not what you think it was. Any priest worthy of their calling would be able to tell you that you can ask for forgiveness but are not owed it. The reason your "apologies" are not being accepted is that your attitude at best is perfunctory, and far from apologetic.

Wrong on all counts. My attorney advised me to adopt my biogrand daughter. Then i can let them see her as long i want. And i told them that. So, no. God didn't give them those kids. I did. They were given to my daughter by God. She couldn't take care of them because of her disease of addiction. I raised her for a year. Then handed her trusting their word they would never do this.
So much for someone s integrity these days. Just young snot nosed spoiled brats

 

[tim m larabel]

Wrong on all counts. My attorney advised me to adopt my biogrand daughter. Then i can let them see her as long i want. And i told them that. So, no. God didn't give them those kids. I did. They were given to my daughter by God. She couldn't take care of them because of her disease of addiction. I raised her for a year. Then handed her trusting their word they would never do this.
So much for someone s integrity these days. Just young snot nosed spoiled brats

P.s. i could give a shit what the law says. As man's word is far more important. Not some rule men with shirts and ties came up with