mightymoose
Moderator
Regardless, the vehicle was apparently not parked in the area designated as fire lane by the red line. The white line is meaningless here.
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Car Impounded for Parking in an UNMARKED Fire Lane in My Gated Community (with pics!)
- Thread Starter ShipwreckedInLA
- Start date
ShipwreckedInLA
New Member
Hey.... just the fact you guys didn't come back with a unanimous "you don't have a snowball chance in hell of winning" has prompted me to start working on filing a small claims. I did finally get the photos, cleverly cropped, but still clearly obviously where I parked. I know they were cropped because I looked at the exif metadata on the pics and 2 were time and date stamped properly but 2 have a modified time and date stamp of 20 min before he finally sent them. I'll be sure to ask for the original photos when I go to court.
So quickly, I know I can't have a lawyer in small claims so do I find a paralegal to help me fill everything out properly? And if I list 5 vehicle codes on my claim that I believe they violated, can they be held accountable to pay the penalty for EACH one? Might sound extreme but better to make 5 claims against them and 2 sticking versus focusing on just one and losing on it.
I guess I just want to know what the best angle would be.... Since this is all new to me. Do they even do small claims with covid still running around? Lol. I know I have a traffic violation from December of laat year (pulled over driving my roommate's car that had expired tags... thanks roomie!) and the court has postponed it so many times it's now set for the first week in February.... 14 months after the ticket. Her registration will already be paid by then for the next year. Lol.
Thanks for the great input. I'll be keeping you posted to see where it all lands. I appreciate any suggestions!
So quickly, I know I can't have a lawyer in small claims so do I find a paralegal to help me fill everything out properly? And if I list 5 vehicle codes on my claim that I believe they violated, can they be held accountable to pay the penalty for EACH one? Might sound extreme but better to make 5 claims against them and 2 sticking versus focusing on just one and losing on it.
I guess I just want to know what the best angle would be.... Since this is all new to me. Do they even do small claims with covid still running around? Lol. I know I have a traffic violation from December of laat year (pulled over driving my roommate's car that had expired tags... thanks roomie!) and the court has postponed it so many times it's now set for the first week in February.... 14 months after the ticket. Her registration will already be paid by then for the next year. Lol.
Thanks for the great input. I'll be keeping you posted to see where it all lands. I appreciate any suggestions!
Last edited:
adjusterjack
Super Moderator
You will need to get them BEFORE going to court.
If you need papers that someone else has, fill out a Small Claims Subpoena for Personal Appearance and Production of Documents at Trial or Hearing and Declaration (Form SC-107) and request these documents. Learn more about subpoenas.
Going to Court - small_claims_selfhelp
Up to you.
I don't know what you mean by that. You are suing for your finite monetary damages of $405. You don't get multiples of that for each breach.
A phone call to the court will answer that question.
mightymoose
Moderator
Before filing small claims you might write a letter to the tow company to resolve this out of court. You can claim up to 4x damages. Would you settle for 2x? They might.
If you can clearly lay out your argument against them they might pay up and save you a big hassle.
Do some research and find out if that fire lane is still valid. I came up empty trying to find the code on the sign, but did find a reference to it being repealed more than 10 years ago.
If the photos they sent you do not clearly show a violation then they still have not complied with the requirement, and they were supposed to provide them prior to payment anyway.
Small claims will be a very slowly process. Try and resolve it by other means before you get caught up in that... and do so in writing. Their responses should also be in writing.
If you can clearly lay out your argument against them they might pay up and save you a big hassle.
Do some research and find out if that fire lane is still valid. I came up empty trying to find the code on the sign, but did find a reference to it being repealed more than 10 years ago.
If the photos they sent you do not clearly show a violation then they still have not complied with the requirement, and they were supposed to provide them prior to payment anyway.
Small claims will be a very slowly process. Try and resolve it by other means before you get caught up in that... and do so in writing. Their responses should also be in writing.
mightymoose
Moderator
You aren't trying to prosecute them for a violation, just showing that you have damages as a result of their wrongful action. Use whatever information you have to show the vehicle was wrongfully towed, that they failed to follow proper procedure, and that you paid money as a result. Be sure to cite the statute that allows you to claim 4x damages.
ShipwreckedInLA
New Member
Here are the codes I believe they violates. Each one has an amount I can sue them for. My question was if they ate found guilty of violating more than one, do I get the civil penalty amount for each violation or is the max I can sue for is the 4x?
Vehicle Code 22658:
(l)(1)(A) - Tow company usually needs written authorization to tow. (l)(5) - Violation penalty is 4x towing and and storage fees.
(l)(1)(C)(i) - Tow company must provide copy of towing authorization before payment is made. (l)(5) - Violation penalty is 4x towing and and storage fees.
(l)(1)(C)(iii) - Tow company must provide notice on how to contact law enforcement if there is an unlawful tow. (l)(5) - Violation penalty is 4x towing and and storage fees.
(l)(2) - Tow company must provide photo of parking violation if towed for parking in fire lane, 15 ft of fire hydrant, or blocking an entrance per a general authorization to to. (l)(5) - Violation penalty is 4x towing and and storage fees.
(m)(1),(3) - Tow company must notify law enforcement within 30 minutes after vehicle removed from private property. (m)(3) - Violation penalty is 3x towing and storage fees.
(n)(1) - Most tows can be for no more than 10 miles. (e)(1) - Property owner liable for 2x towing and storage fees if (n) violated.
Vehicle Code 22658:
(l)(1)(A) - Tow company usually needs written authorization to tow. (l)(5) - Violation penalty is 4x towing and and storage fees.
(l)(1)(C)(i) - Tow company must provide copy of towing authorization before payment is made. (l)(5) - Violation penalty is 4x towing and and storage fees.
(l)(1)(C)(iii) - Tow company must provide notice on how to contact law enforcement if there is an unlawful tow. (l)(5) - Violation penalty is 4x towing and and storage fees.
(l)(2) - Tow company must provide photo of parking violation if towed for parking in fire lane, 15 ft of fire hydrant, or blocking an entrance per a general authorization to to. (l)(5) - Violation penalty is 4x towing and and storage fees.
(m)(1),(3) - Tow company must notify law enforcement within 30 minutes after vehicle removed from private property. (m)(3) - Violation penalty is 3x towing and storage fees.
(n)(1) - Most tows can be for no more than 10 miles. (e)(1) - Property owner liable for 2x towing and storage fees if (n) violated.
mightymoose
Moderator
If the tow company acted on its own for the fire lane violation then the first on your list is out. This is what I had initially thought was the situation, that a representative of the property had requested the tow.
They apparently did provide you a copy of the towing authorization- it listed the fire lane violation. It is posted above. The second on your list is out.
Tow signs usually have a phone number on them for local law enforcement, but the sign you provided is a no parking sign, not a tow zone sign. Are there other signs in the area that indicate the tow company and contact info? Did the tow company mail you a notice after the tow? If not, then there may be an issue to address appropriate signage and notice. As I mentioned before there may be an issue with the sign shown as it may list an outdated fire code that no longer exists. If so, the fire lane might not be legal.
I believe you do have a valid complaint about the photo for two reasons. First, the photo was supposed to be provided to you before payment. Second, you indicated the photo you later received was edited and it may not clearly show a violation that justifies the removal.
I don't believe you indicated that you ever checked with law enforcement when attempting to find your vehicle. How do you know they did not report it? I bet they did. You can call and provide your license plate to find out if there is any tow record.
If the tow company has prior authorization from law enforcement they may take the car more than 10 miles. I would expect most companies in the LA area have this authorization.
Most of what you provided in that last post is of no use to you. If you want to make a complaint to the district attorney about the tow company they might look in to those possible violations.
Your focus should be on the legitimacy of the fire lane, the failure to provide clear photographic evidence prior to payment, the apparent failure to provide a copy of the tow agreement with your rental property, and perhaps failure to give notice/inadequate signage (there may be a single sign at the entrance if the property naming the tow company and giving contact info).
Your damages are the fees you paid for what you believe was an improper tow, which the court could award up to 4x. Forget that they may not have followed procedure- you're main argument is that you were not in the fire lane to begin with. If it is determined that you were in the fire lane then you have the other issues to resolve.
No, you won't get to pile on more damages for multiple violations, but if the tow company is investigated it could be fined for each violation.
They apparently did provide you a copy of the towing authorization- it listed the fire lane violation. It is posted above. The second on your list is out.
Tow signs usually have a phone number on them for local law enforcement, but the sign you provided is a no parking sign, not a tow zone sign. Are there other signs in the area that indicate the tow company and contact info? Did the tow company mail you a notice after the tow? If not, then there may be an issue to address appropriate signage and notice. As I mentioned before there may be an issue with the sign shown as it may list an outdated fire code that no longer exists. If so, the fire lane might not be legal.
I believe you do have a valid complaint about the photo for two reasons. First, the photo was supposed to be provided to you before payment. Second, you indicated the photo you later received was edited and it may not clearly show a violation that justifies the removal.
I don't believe you indicated that you ever checked with law enforcement when attempting to find your vehicle. How do you know they did not report it? I bet they did. You can call and provide your license plate to find out if there is any tow record.
If the tow company has prior authorization from law enforcement they may take the car more than 10 miles. I would expect most companies in the LA area have this authorization.
Most of what you provided in that last post is of no use to you. If you want to make a complaint to the district attorney about the tow company they might look in to those possible violations.
Your focus should be on the legitimacy of the fire lane, the failure to provide clear photographic evidence prior to payment, the apparent failure to provide a copy of the tow agreement with your rental property, and perhaps failure to give notice/inadequate signage (there may be a single sign at the entrance if the property naming the tow company and giving contact info).
Your damages are the fees you paid for what you believe was an improper tow, which the court could award up to 4x. Forget that they may not have followed procedure- you're main argument is that you were not in the fire lane to begin with. If it is determined that you were in the fire lane then you have the other issues to resolve.
No, you won't get to pile on more damages for multiple violations, but if the tow company is investigated it could be fined for each violation.
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