Child Custody -Unwed parents

[MorgansDaddy]

As someone who had a child born in the state of Virginia, and whom wasn't married to the mother at the time, I can attest to AJ and Proserpina being correct about VA law. We were married soon after so of course that changed things, but before we were wed, I had no true rights to my daughter if we had split. My wife could have taken her and NOT the other way around without a court order. When it comes to unwed parents, VA law is more favorable for the mother in these type cases. As you all said, OP's daughter needs a court order and permission BEFORE leaving VA.

Chances are that AJ is right and this "father" is a dead beat and won't put much of a fight up except for paying support and the mother will get what she ask for in court (minus supervised visits because there is no merit to base that on).

 

[BayState]

Well I didn't want to take the time to search for the relevant Virginia law, but I will take your word for it.
Just as you did though, I would emphasize "CAN" be in trouble... it all depends on what exactly dad does.

In this case, if dad took custody of the kid because he knew mom was about to pack up and leave the state, I would think his actions would be justifiable.

Sorry, but no. There is no justifiable reason for placing a child in this turmoil. The father has the legal right to go to court and file a motion for custody and request a RO be placed so that mother can't remove the child from the courts jurisdiction.

If dad wants the same legal rights to the child then he should ensure he marry before procreating. That is just legal reality.

 

[BayState]

Most of these bums do nothing but breed.
They often have 3 or more children by an equal number of women.

The worst part is that the taxpayer gets stuck supporting these children who grow up without positive male influences.

That's where the police come in, after these one person crime waves wreak havoc, destruction, and devastation on the innocent citizenry.

To be fair. There are plenty of mothers out there with have a dozen children by half a dozen men. There are plenty of women that feel that "babydaddy" is irrelevant to the child's life...Even if the father would LOVE to love, support and be a part of said child's life. Revolting? Yes. But true.

 

[1dreastman]

The court won't care about his other children - your daughter apparently was aware of this and thought he was fine parenting material, so they'll trust her judgment.

On what grounds does she think supervised visitation is appropriate?

Yes, she should get a custody/visitation order in place AND get permission to relocate BEFORE she moves. Otherwise Dad could make her life a living hell.

She should also be prepared to pay for all visitation costs since she's creating the distance.

I am a little surprised to hear the court won't care about his standing with his three other children, since they are all quite young, under 10.
He was still in good standing with his children when they first were dating. As time went on she found out much about his lack of parenting skills and by that time it was too late, she was pregnant.
I think she believes supervised visitation would be appropriate since he was unable to support or care for his three other children and they were taken from him and his former wife into Foster Care. She had provided 99% of her child's care and support and is now seeing as their child get older just how little he wants to do with their child.

I agree she should get the custody order from the court, but as far as permission to relocate sounds as though he could make life for her and her child a living hell, or he could take the child.
I don't see how she should have to pay for HIM to see the child. She would be unable at this point to do that.

 

[1dreastman]

OP, your daughter should have avoided a three time loser bum like he had the black plague. I'm sure you warned her. Now, you're trying to clean up her mess.

She wants this bum involved in the child's life, hoping one day they'll be a happy family. Leopards can't change their spots, nor can tigers change their stripes.






If I were her, I wouldn't want this bum around my precious child. He'll never change. He'll just keep breeding like a mad, lustful, wild beast. He'll never be a real dad. This is the fourth child you know about, and he's still failing.




Bums like this are all talk and bark. They have no interest in establishing legal custody. Why? Because that means he'd be required to pay child support!!! This beast simply wants to spread it's polluted seed in as many foolish females as he can.



He could fight her. He has that right. We won't fight her, because that means he'd be obligated. Obligations isn't something these creatures wish to own.

God bless you for caring, mom.

Army,
She has in the past had a knack for picking up these losers. Warn, we did, over and over. We saw what she didn't very early on, and then it was too late, she was pregnant and of course wanted to make it work.
Unfortunately, we have been cleaning up her messes for too long, but have now entered into a contract with her for her to get any further help from us. Might not be worth the paper it's written on but seems to mean something to her.

She really doesn't want him involved in the child's life, but feels like she needs to handle this delicately so as to not set him off, or risk him taking off with the child. So agreeing to some sort of visitation seems like the best thing for her to do. There is no chance of being a happy family with him ever and she knows that. Which is why she wants to leave.

Yes he is truly a bum, and she is finally seeing this...with all her family pointing out all the ways he lacking...as a man really a boy/man, father, mate, and as a person. A waste of good air as far as I'm concern. You are right, he doesn't want custody, that is too much work. Here in VA, even though he has lost custody of his other 3 kids, he must still pay child support, which means he has to work or go to jail. He recently lost his job...which make me think...I should make a call.

He will try to fight her, not because he wants the child, but because he is a child and can't think of anyone but himself and wants to hurt her.

Don't get me wrong, my daughter is far from perfect and has many many issues, but is really trying to get things right for her and her child.

 

[Proserpina]

I am a little surprised to hear the court won't care about his standing with his three other children, since they are all quite young, under 10.
He was still in good standing with his children when they first were dating. As time went on she found out much about his lack of parenting skills and by that time it was too late, she was pregnant.
I think she believes supervised visitation would be appropriate since he was unable to support or care for his three other children and they were taken from him and his former wife into Foster Care. She had provided 99% of her child's care and support and is now seeing as their child get older just how little he wants to do with their child.

I agree she should get the custody order from the court, but as far as permission to relocate sounds as though he could make life for her and her child a living hell, or he could take the child.
I don't see how she should have to pay for HIM to see the child. She would be unable at this point to do that.

Because she's creating the distance. She's wanting to remove the child from Dad's state. Why should Dad have to be responsible for travel costs?

I can't see her getting supervised visitation unless she can show that he's a threat to HER child.

Also - she's lived with Dad and his crappy parenting for 3 years now...she can't really go to court and claim that he's NOW unfit.

Mom needs to FOCUS. She needs to keep HER credibility intact. Don't focus on what's wrong with Dad - focus on why relocating is in the best interest of the child.

 

[1dreastman]

Her reasons for moving are much more than to get away from babydaddy. That is the least of it. As I said she has had issues of her own, which include a very poor credit history. She/we have applied to every section 8 housing facility within the area she lives and works. I have spoken directly with several of these places and she has been denied application to every one because of her credit. So, at it stands now, when she leaves him she has no place to go with her child. The rest of her family lives out of state. She will not go to a women's shelter with her child. I called them as well to see what the arrangements would be,and I have to say, I wouldn't bring my child there either.

She wants the supervision because she knows he won't take care of her. He doesn't do it now, my daughter does. He has always been unfit as a parent. But, you are probably right, she has lived 3 years with him this way, why would the court agree to supervised visits. She is also afraid if not supervised, he will run with the child.

Probably the best bet is as you all said. Get the court order for custody and visitation for him and ask the court for permission to move out of state.

Again, I so appreciate everyone's comments, help and advice.

 

[1dreastman]

Most of these bums do nothing but breed.
They often have 3 or more children by an equal number of women.

The worst part is that the taxpayer gets stuck supporting these children who grow up without positive male influences.

That's where the police come in, after these one person crime waves wreak havoc, destruction, and devastation on the innocent citizenry.

Bum he is, but thankfully our little granddaughter has several positive male influences in her life, father excluded. With hope she can move closer to the rest ofher family she will get to spend much more time with them.

 

[MorgansDaddy]

I just wanted to respond to the "make a call" comment because you (OP) know what your daughter needs to do to protect her interest and not cause legal trouble for herself.

Unless he is in arrears by quite a bit more than you may think, he will not get locked up. I have heard of probation officers demanding someone to work and pay their court ordered support or be violated, but that is RARE.

Also, first legal trouble he would face if he ever got to that point, would most likely be losing his license.

 

[BayState]

Her reasons for moving are much more than to get away from babydaddy. That is the least of it. As I said she has had issues of her own, which include a very poor credit history. She/we have applied to every section 8 housing facility within the area she lives and works. I have spoken directly with several of these places and she has been denied application to every one because of her credit. So, at it stands now, when she leaves him she has no place to go with her child. The rest of her family lives out of state. She will not go to a women's shelter with her child. I called them as well to see what the arrangements would be,and I have to say, I wouldn't bring my child there either.

She wants the supervision because she knows he won't take care of her. He doesn't do it now, my daughter does. He has always been unfit as a parent. But, you are probably right, she has lived 3 years with him this way, why would the court agree to supervised visits. She is also afraid if not supervised, he will run with the child.

Probably the best bet is as you all said. Get the court order for custody and visitation for him and ask the court for permission to move out of state.

Again, I so appreciate everyone's comments, help and advice.

Don't you think it is not time for your Daughter to DEAL with HER OWN LEGAL issues? She obviously has a Hx of bad choices. As she is now a parent, do you not think she should deal with her own actions? Do you plan on spending the rest of your life "bailing" her out?

 

[1dreastman]

I just wanted to respond to the "make a call" comment because you (OP) know what your daughter needs to do to protect her interest and not cause legal trouble for herself.

Unless he is in arrears by quite a bit more than you may think, he will not get locked up. I have heard of probation officers demanding someone to work and pay their court ordered support or be violated, but that is RARE.

Also, first legal trouble he would face if he ever got to that point, would most likely be losing his license.

He is much in arrears and has already lost his license. He only got motivated to get his last 20 hrs per week job when they were going to put him in jail. He got "laid-off" from his fast food restaurant job last week and up til now has still not gone job hunting, even though he knows of several places that are hiring. This is how much he cares about taking care of his family.

 

[MorgansDaddy]

Well then, I guess this bum will get locked up if he keeps down his path. That would be a good thing for you daughter as you already know.

 

[1dreastman]

Don't you think it is not time for your Daughter to DEAL with HER OWN LEGAL issues? She obviously has a Hx of bad choices. As she is now a parent, do you not think she should deal with her own actions? Do you plan on spending the rest of your life "bailing" her out?

I hope for that daily and have for years and whole heartly agree that it is time for her to DEAL with ALL her own issues, and yes a long history of bad choices. Yes she is a parent now and should be dealing. I can't tell you how much I agree with all you say....when we were growing into adults and as we became adults WE took care of our OWN problems, and I certainly do not want to bail her out the rest of my life, and here comes the BUT....
But...she has some pyscological issues,and depression etc that hasn't been dealt with enough for her to be completely on her own. We are aiming for that day and counceling has started to show hope, but we are not sure she will ever be totally independent. If you have ever had any depression, you know how parallizing it can be to cope or handle things in life. At this time she is unable to take antidepressants...so individual counceling as well as a group relationships counceling class is where she's at.

Nothing is a cut and dry and simple as it appears is it? So we have the issue of the boyfriend trying to make her out an unfit mother before the court. Is she the mother I want her to be? No, but she does take care of her child, much better than she takes care of herself. I have never worried that my grandbaby has been neglected by her so as to feel she is in physical or emotional danger.

So long answer is her becoming independent ASAP, with our help. Hard to turn my back on my grandbaby...who is a doll baby!!

 

[mightymoose]

Sorry, but no. There is no justifiable reason for placing a child in this turmoil. The father has the legal right to go to court and file a motion for custody and request a RO be placed so that mother can't remove the child from the courts jurisdiction.

If dad wants the same legal rights to the child then he should ensure he marry before procreating. That is just legal reality.

I get that mom may ultimately have the edge on custody... but until mom gets an order there is nothing to violate the father for if he takes the child. Under what authority, absent abuse or custodial arrest, would anyone remove the child from the father's custody and hand it over to the mother without a judge saying so first?

 

[mightymoose]

I don't see how she should have to pay for HIM to see the child. She would be unable at this point to do that.

She is the one moving and creating the distance. That makes it her responsibility. If she can't afford it then it isn't time to move out of state... or she needs to negotiate a better deal in mediation efforts with dad.

 

[MorgansDaddy]

I get that mom may ultimately have the edge on custody... but until mom gets an order there is nothing to violate the father for if he takes the child. Under what authority, absent abuse or custodial arrest, would anyone remove the child from the father's custody and hand it over to the mother without a judge saying so first?

Sorry but you're wrong. They are not married and thus no court order would be needed. HE needs a judge to say he has permission NOT her. Him taking the child and refusing to return the child to the mother wouldn't be a whole lot different than if a stranger took the child. When the parents are not married in Virginia, and no custody order is in place, the mother is considered to have sole custody.

He MIGHT not be arrested for child abduction, which is the only difference from a stranger taking the child. He would have to return the child to the mother, however.

 

[mightymoose]

Again- I get it... that is the position the court will take once the matter gets there, but there does not seem to be anything (at least I have not found it yet) in the law that the father would be violating if he did in fact take the child. Absent a court order nobody would have any authority to remove the child from the father's custody and give it back to the mother unless there was abuse or some other crime in question.
The father taking the child is way different than a stranger doing so- the primary difference being the intent and the likely use of force.... as well as the fact that nobody seems to dispute that he is in fact the father.

I have not found anything yet, but perhaps those of you who are more familiar with VA law can point me towards something in state statutes that says the father can not take his child from the home that they live in together and go to another location without asking mom's permission.

 

[Proserpina]

Nothing to add - we're going in circles, unfortunately.

 

[MorgansDaddy]

Paternity. In the classic paternity case, the mother petitions for proof of an unmarried father's paternity of her child in order to obtain an enforceable right to child support. An order of paternity, however, does not carry with it any recognition of the father's right to regular access or shared custody of the child as a matter of law. In order to obtain a secure right to maintain a regular relationship with his child, the father must obtain a separate order for visitation or custody from a Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court judge.

http://www.cravensnoll.com/Family-Law/Child-Custody-and-Support.shtml

The father has to assert his rights in Virginia by petitioning for custody and/or visitation.

VA code doesn't specifically say that, but states what a father must do to get custody and/or visitation, or basically, assert his rights.

 

[Proserpina]

Thanks for posting that, MD.

I truly do understand where you're coming from, Moose. But truly - in Virginia, an unwed father has NO RIGHT to take the child without Mom's permission unless there is a court order.

I realize that this is the reverse of many states - but this is VA.

MD does know of what he speaks.