child protective services

[duskieone]

You are correct, but you may as well have said "ALL" states have horrific records with regard to child services, because that is the case, as we have found out doing months of research on this.

Here is something you may find interesting, also. When we went to court on this matter in Feb. (just a couple of weeks ago), to appeal the father's petition for custody, the father did NOT appear in court. He just failed to show up...no explanation. As he was listed on the docket as the ONLY respondent, one would assume that would be grounds for dismissal and to have the children returned to me.

Unfortunately, the DCS case worker and attorney for DCS showed up AGAIN to represent the state in a matter they did not file. They convinced the judge that (despite there being no docket numbers or any petition that anyone has actually seen filed with the clerk of court's office) that they had filed a petition in "conjunction" with the father's private party petition. This was after my husband informed the DCS attorney that they had no business being in the courtroom, since the DCS commissioner had issued a statement of non-involvement. That took the wind out of her sails for a few seconds, but when she bounced back, she tried to convince the judge that
a) I could not be appointed an attorney because I "badmouthed" the last one. (the judge almost laughed at her) and....
b) that we had not filed our appeal in a "timely fashion"....which is amusing, since the appeal was filed before the final order of the court was even filed. Apparently, she thought she could snag it up on the "court order" they filed afterwards from their own office...saying I hadn't filed an appeal to THAT one. Again, the judge waved her off...granted my motion for counsel to be appointed, and continued the matter to March 19.

That was about the gist of it....other than we met briefly with the new court appointed attorney after court, and he, too, is paying NO attention to the facts of the matter. That much became painfully clear this morning, when we received an email from him, saying that after reviewing our case, he felt the "state" had sufficient reason for removing my children. He said my best plan of action is to re-establish visition and "make a case" for the return of custody of my children, since they are not planning to terminate parental rights at this point, because they are with a family member (the biological father).

There are SO many things wrong with this statement, it's too frustrating for me to go into, but a good example of how LITTLE this man paid attention to detail is that he referred to my husband and I as "Mr. and Mrs. Anderson" in his email.....um....that is NOT our name....and that wasn't even MY name at the time my children were removed from my home. We met this man in person, introduced ourselves to him, have sent him multiple emails signed with our REAL name and have left him phone messages asking him to call us back, leaving our real name, and yet, he addressed his email to the wrong people? Basically, he is telling us in this email, that he doesn't want to fight the "state" on this matter, especially as a court appointed attorney, so he won't help us. It seems we are back to square one, and left to represent ourselves.

 

[duskieone]

Oh, and Justice....in reply to your last message....

We did contact the governor of TN. The previous governor insisted it was "not his problem" and then the commissioner of DCS told him it wasn't even a DCS matter...so we got ignored.

Then a couple of weeks ago, after the new Governor took office, AND had appointed a new DCS commissioner, we sent a very long, detailed letter to him, explaining exactly what had happened so far.

We DID get a personal reply from the governor, and he said he would forward our mail to the commissioner, who should respond to us "directly". So far, we have not gotten any sort of response from the new commissioner, but we have been told by Governor Phil Bredesen...."please do not hesitate to contact me again if you cannot resolve this matter." You can bet, we'll be doing just that.

 

[justice]

Thank you for responding!

First, let me say, please disregard a different post I made complaining that no one would answer my questions. I guess I was oversensitive here, based on the fact that I have pretty much been ignored by everyone I've turned to for help. CPS, DHS, Legal Aid, the state legislators, the governor, etc., have never acknowledged my concerns or questions, so I thought, "par for the course." I was wrong. Thank you for responding.

Anyway, it is unbelievable what goes on in these agencies. Several states have been sued already, but they usually settle and make lots of promises to change, which never come to pass. I feel I have a really good basis for a lawsuit, regarding how my child was treated, and having my name placed on a central registry of offenders, even though I have yet to have a chance to be heard to refute the allegations. There are so many deprivations of protected liberty interests throughout my case (and many like it) that it just "shocks" the sense of justice.

What do you suggest as far as pressing them with paperwork? I have tried sending letters (return receipt) but, they go unacknowledged.

I have a lot of questions, if you wouldn't mind....

Originally posted by thelawprofessor:
Many states have horrific records with regard to child services. I'm currently mulling over whether there is a basis to sue the state based upon some absolutely mind bogglingly negligent behavior that has likely permanently and needlessly damaged a family and their children. You could tell me almost anything these days and I'd believe it.

My personal opinion is that people need to be pressed against the wall with paperwork so that if there is any problem, their head will roll. It's not a guarantee of some competent behavior but it's the best modus operandi I can think of at this time.

 

[justice]

Duskieone

Glad to hear somebody seems to be listening, maybe you actually have a good governor, lol. I've been wondering how you've been doing.

Remember, the attorney still works for you, court appointed or not. Make it very clear what Constitutional issues you want addressed. If he doesn't do it, ask the judge to let you. You have the right to have all your arguments presented, and they must be raised now in case you have to appeal.

As for me, I finally got a hearing date. Get this! They want me to show up at the DHS office, and the Administrative Law Judge will CALL me when I get there and conduct the hearing by phone! WHAT is up with that? How can I possibly get a "full and fair hearing" and present material evidence OVER THE PHONE? They have thrown roadblocks in my way at every step in this process, so I shouldn't be surprised, but I am stunned.

It took contacting the governor's office and getting his office of constituent services to contact "client support" of DHS before I ever even got a copy of the damn report. Then, when they finally sent it, 17 of the 32 pages had no information that would help my appeal in any way. Many of the pages are copies of their computer screens, and one has our address, period. There is one that has each one of our names (so that's 6 pages). They sent me a copy of the original notice they sent me, and a copy of the return receipt I signed when I got the notice. Real helpful stuff.... NOT. The rest is innuendo and flat out lies. The only good thing about it is, the worker was so arrogant, she lied from one page to the next. I should be able to prove a good part my case, just through the discrepancies, contradictions, and lies in her own notes.

Anyway, gotta run. Lots of research to do!

Originally posted by duskieone:
Oh, and Justice....in reply to your last message....

We did contact the governor of TN. The previous governor insisted it was "not his problem" and then the commissioner of DCS told him it wasn't even a DCS matter...so we got ignored.

Then a couple of weeks ago, after the new Governor took office, AND had appointed a new DCS commissioner, we sent a very long, detailed letter to him, explaining exactly what had happened so far.

We DID get a personal reply from the governor, and he said he would forward our mail to the commissioner, who should respond to us "directly". So far, we have not gotten any sort of response from the new commissioner, but we have been told by Governor Phil Bredesen...."please do not hesitate to contact me again if you cannot resolve this matter." You can bet, we'll be doing just that.

 

[duskieone]

Boy, does all THAT sound familiar. When we finally got the discovery from the attorney who withdrew from our case in November, it was the same pile of crap. Pages upon pages of nothing...multiple copies of forms that weren't even filled in, let alone signed...just blank forms. Multiple copies of letters which were never mailed (for instance, the one informing me that I had been named in a child abuse case, and had the right to have the case reviewed....it was typed up and signed by the case worker, but never mailed), copies of counselor's reports from 4 years ago, (that I never signed release forms for)....we got a stack of probably 350 pages of stuff...90 percent of which was redundant and irrelevent.

The only good thing about it, is that it shows very clearly how little policy and procedure they followed (none, basically) and it also points out, as you said.... all the lies and innuendo and discrepancies in their notes. At least it gives us something to go on, and makes it a lot easier to prove our case, since they may have all this "ton" of paperwork to make it look like they have a hefty case...but it's all a big illusion. I mean, geez...5 copies of a blank form?? Oh, we also found fax transmissions dated in 1994, which is before my children were even BORN. Where the heck did those come from?? We have gone over all this stuff pretty thoroughly, and when it starts to come out in court, it's going to make them look pretty stupid. Especially when we can pull out documents that state very clearly that the case was investigated and a supervisor advised "case closed" on two occasions, meaning they couldn't substantiate anything, and the children should have been returned to me and they did not do it. Then there is also a document where (3 weeks AFTER my children were taken from my home, illegally) the caseworker called HERSELF on the hotline and reported suspected sexual abuse of my children, in order to keep the case open. We also have her signature on a document asking the commissioner to "stay the review" of the case, just in case we figured out that we could ASK for a review.

They, of course, gave us no paperwork informing us of that right, or any other paperwork, period. I was never sent ANY information from DCS...I was never given the name of a case manager, or supervisor, and by the time I started BEGGING for that information, they insisted they were "not involved" in this matter. Once they took my kids and placed them with the biological father, I recieved NOTHING from DCS...even after asking for documentation in writing, repeatedly.

Basically, they have this huge pile of papers, that mean NOTHING because nothing was done legally...nothing was filed, nothing was mailed, no proper procedure was followed in any way. They accused me in court of "lack of cooperation" with caseworkers, but they gave me nothing to cooperate with...they asked nothing of me, and to this day, there hasn't been a single statement put on paper to me, by either DCS or the court, asking me to do anything in order to have my children returned to me. How is a person expected to "cooperate" when they don't give you anything to cooperate with?


We have several things in our favor, though. We have been careful about documenting correspondence, and keeping original documents, have gone through all their "allegations" and can refute all of them easily, and we have at least gotten some feedback from the Governor on this issue. He is aware of the situation, anyway...and since he just took office, he isn't responsible for this whole mess, and if he is smart, can come out looking like the hero, instead of compounding the problem for the state.

The main issue for us...is that they took the children without a court order, they never got a court order, they never followed up with any of the things they should have done, and they are now claiming not to even be involved, so it shouldn't be too tough to get it thrown out of court, once we get the chance to actually make the judge AWARE of all that. So far, I haven't been given a chance to be heard...even after 3 court appearances.

Then of course, there's the fact that the father himself, failed to appear in court for the appeal. Shouldn't that have been grounds for dismissal right there? He was the only respondant and didn't even show up. (nor did he have an attorney show up to represent him...the DCS attorney was representing "the state" in a private party matter)

 

[justice]

Wow!

What a mess. It sounds like you've really done well with keeping up with everything though. Documentation is the key. The other thing people like us seem to have in our favor is the fact that they are so unorganized (one hand doesn't know what the other is doing) and they are so arrogant they actually put their lies down in black and white. Makes you really wonder about cases of actual abuse, doesn't it? Maybe if they actually spent their time and resources chasing the real cases, instead of harrassing people, they might keep more innocent children from suffering and dying. Scary to think that children that really need help are lost in a mountain of useless papework, and no one knows what's going on in their case. Makes it easier to see how they "lose" so many children in their care too. Every state has hundreds of kids that they don't even know where the kids are and no one has even seen them for months. The whole damn bureaucracy needs to come tumbling down. I don't know why it is so difficult for those in authority to see that their "
grand social experiment" just doesn't work. Time to start from scratch!

 

[duskieone]

The reason they refuse to see it... and admit that the social experiment was a huge failure, is that it's a cash cow for the states. If the federal funding were to stop, the whole system would come crashing down, and that's exactly what needs to happen. It's beyond the point of "reform." They have been trying to reform the system for 30 years, and it only gets worse. It has to be dismantled and as you said...start from scratch.

It really is sad, the number of kids who fall through the cracks of the foster care system, or who remain in truly abusive situations because these people are so bent on a "mission" which is usually driven by personal agendas and childhood issues of their own, they can't even see what they're doing. For the amount of time and money that has gone into keeping my own children from me, they could have done SO much good for families and children who truly needed help or services. Instead, neither my family, or any other family got that help. The only people getting something out of this situation, are all the state employees, attorneys, judges, counselors, etc. It has cost my family everything just to try and stay afloat and fight for my children.

The only services they have EVER offered in this case...have been to the biological father. They have treated HIM as if he were the custodial parent all along, which in itself, is a violation of their policy. (They are not to place the children with ANYONE, even a relative, who is going to be contrary to reunification of the family) They are STILL paying for counseling for both him and the children, and we even have it in the caseworker's notes that they offered to pay bills for him when he lost his job. Funny...they never offered ME any help, and in fact, they made sure I had NO income, by contributing to my husband losing his job, and then helping the father terminate child support as well.

People accuse me of having a bad attitude towards CPS and caseworkers, and you know what? I have every reason to, and I won't apologize for it. I won't lump all social workers into the same catagory...hell, I have a couple of them in my own family, but the people we've been dealing with very clearly have their own personal agenda in this case, and it has NOTHING to do with "the best interests" of my children. It's all about individual personalities and relationships. It's about a caseworker who decided the moment she met me that she did not like me, and she did not like my husband, because we didn't just "confess" to being bad parents, so she could be all self-righteous and powerful, and it's about a biological father who was tired of paying child support and who's ego couldn't stand the fact that his children loved their stepfather, and they were happy.

 

[justice]

I hear ya!

I agree with you 100%. Just follow the money trail...

It breaks my heart to think of the children out there who are really suffering and nobody is helping them. This has got to stop. I fully intend to start an activist group when my case is over.

Boy, can I relate to the "bad attitude" thing. I love how they use that against you. Like you're supposed to get all warm and fuzzy with them when they're hurting your children and ruining your life. The worker wrote on our report that my husband was unhappy and angry, and that I was upset. HELLO! Who wouldn't be? The "unhappy" part really killed me... What? like most people are happy when they show up to destroy your family?

This is all so Big Brother. Parents are guilty of "thought crimes" because we won't admit to something we didn't do. I watched "1984" last night. It's not so farfetched as I used to think....

I know what you mean about their "services" too. That is supposed to be their mission, to provide services and help families. They offered us nothing (not that I want their services anyway). But it was painfully obvious that "help" is the last thing on their list! I still have no "case plan" either. Of course, I don't want one, but it worries me thinking they are probably over there saying that I'm "not complying" even though I have nothing to comply with. I still can't believe they get away with all this. I keep hoping I'm going to wake up from this nightmare!

 

[fedup7]

Re: Actually, they have been held accountable...

Originally posted by duskieone
There was a recent class action suit against DCS and the state of TN (we found the court order on their own web site) and the state LOST, and was placed under a 54 month moratorium for "complete compliance" with the laws and procedures they must follow regarding the removal of children and placement in foster care. Although my children were not placed in foster care, per se...and even DCS says "they were never in the care of the state", a lot of the order applies to our situation. We found 17 places in that court order where they are in violation of it.

I also found a couple of interesting things regarding this most recent court order, as well. One of which is that the docket numbers are identical to the ones on the father's private party petition, but they are now trying to say that DCS filed the petition on August 16th (two days after the father filed his). I was never summoned for ANY DCS petition, nor did I ever recieve a copy of one. And when the director of the Ombudsman's Office of Families and Children investigated in December...he found NO petitions filed by DCS. Where did this one come from? And why was it never mentioned by anyone before this? Seems to me a case of retroactively filed petitions...again, to cover their butts.

I have to talk to an attorney about this, but I'm wondering now whether I will have to appeal THIS order, as well, even though it was filed LONG after they legally could, in regards to the same hearing.

Using their logic, they could concievably just continue to issue more court orders whenever it suits them, to keep this tied up in court forever. No, I don't think so. lol

I find myself wondering...at what point are they going to become so annoyed, that they give up? At what point do they admit they were wrong and give me my children back, before they all end up in prison and the state goes bankrupt with the lawsuits that will hit them?

I read your quote and today is April 9 and my husband and I received an removal order of our five children from our home.(thus fair the children are still here) and you can take a guess as to what state we live in....Yep you guessed it TN. We have been stalked by DCS for over five years now and they are still trying to take our children from us. I don't know what to do. We have tried to sell our home everything but they will not leave us alone, but children that really need to be checked on are not even talked to. I know of four cases in TN that the families have not even been investagated and ingored but have had complaints made on them. Any ideas please help. Fedup 7

 

[justice]

for fedup7

I realize you posted to Duskie because she is also from TN, but I don't think she's around any more. If you can give more detail about your case, I will try to help.

I can't tell you what to do, but if they came to take my children, I would tell them to go get a warrant. I would then check to make sure that it was SIGNED by a judge, and not just stamped with his signature.

Once they get their hands on your kids it will be hell to get them back.

State law (per federal law) says that they must show "imminent danger" or "imminent harm" (check your state laws for exact wording) in order to justify taking your children. They are also supposed to use reasonable efforts to avoid removal. SUPPOSED TO being the key words here....

It is unusual that you would receive a pick up order and your kids would remain in the home... are you sure what you received wasn't a petition to take your children? Have you been summoned to hearing?

~Justice

 

[justice]

fedup7

As I'm sure you know, CPS fabricates abuse and neglect in the majority of cases. They also twist the definitions of abuse and neglect. If you know what they are accusing you of, look it up in your state statutes and see if the defintions under the LAW agree with their claims. These workers usually do not know the law. For example: In many states spanking is legal and is not defined as abuse, but even in those states, parents are branded abusers on a regular basis for spanking their children. CPS "protcols" often do not agree with the law (which is unconstitutional) and it is the law that prevails. You must educate yourself on the laws and the realities of CPS.

~Justice

 

[fedup7]

Re: fedup7

Originally posted by justice
As I'm sure you know, CPS fabricates abuse and neglect in the majority of cases. They also twist the definitions of abuse and neglect. If you know what they are accusing you of, look it up in your state statutes and see if the defintions under the LAW agree with their claims. These workers usually do not know the law. For example: In many states spanking is legal and is not defined as abuse, but even in those states, parents are branded abusers on a regular basis for spanking their children. CPS "protcols" often do not agree with the law (which is unconstitutional) and it is the law that prevails. You must educate yourself on the laws and the realities of CPS.

~Justice

Oh we know all to well that they make up stores and false reports all the time. on the people that they actually need to be checking into they claim that there is no problems. We have been dealing with them for five years now and i am sick of them. So far they have left the children here but the court date or the first one is not here yet it is friday, the lawyer we have has to put it off because he has another case some where else I am afraid they are going to come take my chidlren and i can not stop them is there anything i can do to stop them from getting my children until we go to court to fight their charges that are false.

 

[fedup7]

Re: for fedup7

Originally posted by justice
I realize you posted to Duskie because she is also from TN, but I don't think she's around any more. If you can give more detail about your case, I will try to help.

I can't tell you what to do, but if they came to take my children, I would tell them to go get a warrant. I would then check to make sure that it was SIGNED by a judge, and not just stamped with his signature.

Once they get their hands on your kids it will be hell to get them back.

State law (per federal law) says that they must show "imminent danger" or "imminent harm" (check your state laws for exact wording) in order to justify taking your children. They are also supposed to use reasonable efforts to avoid removal. SUPPOSED TO being the key words here....

It is unusual that you would receive a pick up order and your kids would remain in the home... are you sure what you received wasn't a petition to take your children? Have you been summoned to hearing?

~Justice

Yes it was a removal order because the lawyer that we spoke to was just as suprissed to learn the kids were still here. THe supposed charges began in January of this year and the papers were not filled until april 6, the last time we seen or spoke to anyone from DCS was march 5. Does that seem like they are so worried about it. But my exhusband is somehow involved in this mess I just don't know how yet. The details are long and drawn out. They first accused my husband of abusing my oldest two sons, when the doctor said no abused they still pushed the issue, then after three years let him come back home (that was actually the judge who let him come home, the worker said point blank he would never allow my husband to come home) then they started claiming that my daughter had lice five times only her out of five children, then claimed our house was basically nasty but they do not even know what it looks like they have not been here since sometime in march.

 

[justice]

fedup7

Go to familyrightsassociation.com, profane justice, fightcpsandwin, cpswatch, or any of the many, many other sites available. there is a lot of helpful information for you there.

More later...

~Justice

 

[jdolphins]

I went threw the same things. In 1996-2000.

If only I had enough time to share the whole story. I went thru 4 years of this and I honestly know what justice is talking about I was young and didn't know anything about the paper they had me sign. OH, I do now and it will be a cold day in you know where before I will ever let them into my house again. I have a neighbor that is harrassing me, I can almost garantee that by tomorrow I will have CPS at my door. I will just point in her direction and let them know that his is a harrassment issue. I will not and now know most of my rights as a parent. You are right about no Lawyers in the country want to touch that with a ten foot pole. If there was some way to band together all of us who truely have had those problems. Then we could get to congress and get them to understand that they are truely not doing justice for the children of the US. They usually only here of the good that comes out of it never the horror stories like you and me and so many other people have had. I welcome any emails reguarding this. My kids were 3-5-7 when this all started and they are all now 11-13-15. They are very aware of what these people did to them back then. They have not forgotten being drug out of school and told they aren't going to see their parents for a while. They had separation anxiety for a long time, I still see some evidence of that with them even now that they are older. They have grown to be beautiful children and I promise that you will have yours again. You just can't give up and learn as much as you can about what they have done. Start visiting your County commissioner and start writing letters to your congressmen. I lived in MD when this happened and I now have ptsd. I will never move back to MD ever. You couldn't pay me. My family thank goodness understands. I wasn't the perfect parent but I never abused my kids and yes I am also supposedly on this so called list I have never seen it and I don't even know where to look for it. They said they were putting me on this list for neglect, if I remember right my now 11 year old was taking a blind cord when he was 3 and running thru the dining room with it and the cord rubbed a red mark on his neck, then he went to his room the same day and tried wrap the light cord around his neck all of which I was there to get my terrible 3 year old out of but since I was stupid enough to be honest and tell them the truth I got nailed and lost my kids. They came with police and took my kids and they went to the school and picked them up they also took my kids from a friends car with police while they were at a store. I don't remember all the details, just how I felt. One time the judge gave them back to me but it was the next morning. The next time was the one year anniversary of the Oaklahoma City Bombing and the courthouse got a bomb threat just as we were to go into court. That was a friday. They wouldn't allow me to see my kids all weekend. They were horrified. I was devistated. So see even 9 years later I am still affected. I wish all the senators and all the congressmen could hear my story. It was 4 years of hell. Oh and then when I was relased I moved the hell out of md and told them I was moving to CA which I really was and changed my mind b/c of my mothers health and moved to SC instead. I was released so I saw no need to contact them that was the last thing on my mind after what I went thru. So somehow they found out where I lived and they sent me a letter that if I ever went back to MD that they might take me to court. You can forget that. My children have been happy and healty and doing much better since they are out of my life. I will not jeopardize there well being for CPS' sake. forget it. If you need anything or some experience and some advise I am willing to help anyone who really needs it. you may email me at hotmail or jdolphins68@yahoo.com anytime. Good Luck to all of you and God be with you. My motto: One day at a Time and "If you are honest and trustworthy, those that are not it will come back and smack them in the face, and you will come out on top." It has worked for me for many years. God Bless.