Covered Drainage Culvert

[Harvey Landry]

Jurisdiction

Louisiana

In this locale, drainage ditches are generally open, beside the street, in front of residential lots and sidewalks. Homeowners traditionally mow the ditch banks and remove sediment from the concrete ditch beds. Homeowner Mary paid to improve the drainage area in front of her property by having a culvert installed, dirt added on top to the level of the street and sidewalk, and grass planted.

Can Mary claim ownership of the newly covered area? Can she control who may park on the strip? May she post a "No Parking" sign on it? In the aftermath of a storm, do her neighbors have the right to place downed tree branches and other debris on the covered area (and the sidewalk, against Mary's fence) without Mary's permission. This was done while Mary was not home, temporarily evacuated ahead of the storm. What are Mary's rights in this situation? Can law enforcement officers compel the neighbors to remove the debris?

 

[Zigner]

In this locale, drainage ditches are generally open, beside the street, in front of residential lots and sidewalks. Homeowners traditionally mow the ditch banks and remove sediment from the concrete ditch beds. Homeowner Mary paid to improve the drainage area in front of her property by having a culvert installed, dirt added on top to the level of the street and sidewalk, and grass planted.

Can Mary claim ownership of the newly covered area? Can she control who may park on the strip? May she post a "No Parking" sign on it? In the aftermath of a storm, do her neighbors have the right to place downed tree branches and other debris on the covered area (and the sidewalk, against Mary's fence) without Mary's permission. This was done while Mary was not home, temporarily evacuated ahead of the storm.

Up until this point, I'll just say that hypothetical-Mary will want to consult with a local attorney.

What are Mary's rights in this situation?

The question is too broad.

Can law enforcement officers compel the neighbors to remove the debris?

No.

 

[adjusterjack]

Well, Harvey, you're apparently not Mary.

Who are you and why is this your business?

Why not have Mary come here so we can ask her pertinent questions?

 

[justblue]

In this locale, drainage ditches are generally open, beside the street, in front of residential lots and sidewalks. Homeowners traditionally mow the ditch banks and remove sediment from the concrete ditch beds. Homeowner Mary paid to improve the drainage area in front of her property by having a culvert installed, dirt added on top to the level of the street and sidewalk, and grass planted.

Can Mary claim ownership of the newly covered area? Can she control who may park on the strip? May she post a "No Parking" sign on it? In the aftermath of a storm, do her neighbors have the right to place downed tree branches and other debris on the covered area (and the sidewalk, against Mary's fence) without Mary's permission. This was done while Mary was not home, temporarily evacuated ahead of the storm. What are Mary's rights in this situation? Can law enforcement officers compel the neighbors to remove the debris?

Did Mary have permission from the city to alter their property?

 

[army judge]

Can Mary claim ownership of the newly covered area? Can she control who may park on the strip? May she post a "No Parking" sign on it? I

Who owns the grass between the sidewalk and the street?

Generally speaking, the governmental unit where the property sits has the "public right of way" (or what some term use by easement) the "verge" or "hellstrip", it is usually a 25 foot (give or take) right of way from the centerline of the roadway.

Some roads have a larger right of way.

A right of way does not constitute ownership.

Even IF there is no sidewalk, the governmental entity has a right of way of the first several feet onto the property.

As to whether Mary can create parking rules, post do or don't do this/that signage, probably NOT.

Why?

Look to the definition, the governmental unit has the "right of way" for the public good.

To further understand the definition, think about railroads, utilities, etc... and the "right of way" those entities still possess and use.

Mary might wish to discuss her decisions with her local elected officials, mayor, council, etc.

 

[zddoodah]

Why are you posting instead of Mary? What is your involvement, if any, in this situation?

Can Mary claim ownership of the newly covered area?

Anyone can claim anything one wants.

Can she control who may park on the strip?

Without knowing what "the strip" refers to (that term is not used in the first paragraph of your post), there is no way to assess this question.

May she post a "No Parking" sign on it?

She can post all the signs she like, but it's unlikely such a sign would have any legal weight (also see above regarding "the strip").

In the aftermath of a storm, do her neighbors have the right to place downed tree branches and other debris on the covered area (and the sidewalk, against Mary's fence) without Mary's permission.

I doubt that such a "right" exists.

What are Mary's rights in this situation?

Creating a list of rights would serve no useful purpose.

Can law enforcement officers compel the neighbors to remove the debris?

Can they? Probably. Will they? Howzabout Mary call them and ask?

 

[welkin]

Who owns the grass between the sidewalk and the street?

Generally speaking, the governmental unit where the property sits has the "public right of way" (or what some term use by easement) the "verge" or "hellstrip", it is usually a 25 foot (give or take) right of way from the centerline of the roadway.

Some roads have a larger right of way.

A right of way does not constitute ownership.

Even IF there is no sidewalk, the governmental entity has a right of way of the first several feet onto the property.

As to whether Mary can create parking rules, post do or don't do this/that signage, probably NOT.

Why?

Look to the definition, the governmental unit has the "right of way" for the public good.

To further understand the definition, think about railroads, utilities, etc... and the "right of way" those entities still possess and use.

Mary might wish to discuss her decisions with her local elected officials, mayor, council, etc.

You got that correct. There is almost always an easement (measured from the centerline of the road) that is for public use. Part of that easement is on Mary's land and although she must maintain it (cutting the grass, and maintaining the ditch) she runs a foul if she did what she did without municipal permission and permits.

So check your zoning ordinances and contact your municipal officials (DPW, zoning, and building) to find out if what Mary did was with permission and if it was legal.

 

[Michael Wechsler]

I happened to come across this older thread of ours while researching a problem we are currently encountering under New York law. The issue deals with the sidewalk area between the sidewalk and the street in front of a property. This area, sometimes called the "service lane" (and in other areas I've researched it as a treelawn, streetscape, or parkway) contains parking meters,traffic and parking signs and also trees along with their 'tree beds.'

Fixing these areas doesn't mean any ownership is acquired by the land owner. At least in NY and I'm guessing in virtually all jurisdictions, this is city, municipality or government property and typically requires a permit or authorization to modify. In New York the property owner can be required to make improvements, even if it seems unfair, and the property owner can apply to reimbursement to New York City for the repairs.

If there is any type of adverse possession type claim it would be defeated on its face because, unless all persons are kept off the are in an open and notorious fashion, it's not adverse possession by definition. And if anyone thinks it's as easy as described to acquire rights to government or municipality property by making improvements that might cover or obfuscate property lines... well I've got a bridge to sell you on the cheap.

 

[Zigner]

In my town, it's "my" property, but the city has an easement, as described above. I honestly don't know for sure what I am or am not allowed to do there (I just water the grass), but I know the city can do darned near anything they want there.

 

[welkin]

If there is any type of adverse possession type claim it would be defeated on its face because, unless all persons are kept off the are in an open and notorious fashion, it's not adverse possession by definition. And if anyone thinks it's as easy as described to acquire rights to government or municipality property by making improvements that might cover or obfuscate property lines... well I've got a bridge to sell you on the cheap.

I will add to that, that you cannot claim adverse possession on lands owned by the government be it Federal, state, county, or municipality.