Divorce with children out of the state

[Violet]

I left my husband and I had nowhere else to except to my mothers house. She lives in Arizona; my husband our two sons and I lived in Oroville,ca. He is threatening me with kidnapping but it was an abusive relationship. I left with the clothes on our backs because I was too afraid to go and get our belongings. He is also threatens to take my boys away from me. I have no problem with him seeing them, I have offered to pay for a hotel room that he can stay in while he is in Arizona and help with the gas money to get here. What do I have to do to keep my boys? I don't care if he has visiting rights. Please contact me at (deleted). Thank you for your time.



I deleted your personal information for your safety/protection. Betty3

 

[mightymoose]

If he is dangerous you may want to seek a restraining order. If he has been physically abusive you may want to report it to law enforcement- the sooner the better if you have injuries.
You can also get a temporary custody order through the court. Until you have one it can be somewhat of a free for all with the kids and you don't want that.
What you describe is not kidnapping and you should not worry about that.
Unfortunately this all needs to be done in California in the county if your residence there. If going back is not an option for you then get some legal assistance immediately.

I'm sure someone will come along soon and remove your personal information. You will need to check back here for responses.

I don't know how useful it might be, but maybe if you start here you can be pointed in the right direction. Http://www.thehotline.org

 

[army judge]

I left my husband and I had nowhere else to except to my mothers house. She lives in Arizona; my husband our two sons and I lived in Oroville,ca. He is threatening me with kidnapping but it was an abusive relationship. I left with the clothes on our backs because I was too afraid to go and get our belongings. He is also threatens to take my boys away from me. I have no problem with him seeing them, I have offered to pay for a hotel room that he can stay in while he is in Arizona and help with the gas money to get here. What do I have to do to keep my boys? I don't care if he has visiting rights. Please contact me at (deleted). Thank you for your time.



I deleted your personal information for your safety/protection. Betty3

You and your husband are equal before the eyes of the law, insofar as your children are concerned.
You can't be charged with kidnapping your own children.
He can't force you to stay in California.
He can file for divorce in California and that's where it can become uncomfortable for you.
If he ever violates you, abuses you, or even pushes you again, IMMEDIATELY call "911".
If you're worried about YOUR safety, don't see him again, unless you're in your lawyer's office, the police station, or court.
Don't waste any more time, MONDAY morning hire yourself an Arizona lawyer.
Begin the divorce process, otherwise, he'll beat you to the punch and file in California.
Stop communicating with this violent, wife beater.
Don't encourage the beast by paying anything for him.
Use that money to care for your kids, not to pay travel expenses for your violent abuser to get to you and pound the bejesus out of you for the 100,000th time, or even the second time.
No wife, no husband, no person should allow anyone to pound them, or beat the sense out of their skull.
If he beat you once, he'll do it again, and again.

Please get help from your local battered women's shelter or organization.
Domestic violence is still violence and no one should have to accept a beating, call the police if he ever touches you again.
Remember, don't see him unless your lawyer, the police, or the judge is present.
By all means, don't involve innocent babies and other family members in think mess.

 

[disagreeable]

You should expect parental kidnapping charges to be pressed. You could have left the state and not taken the kids. You could have gone to a battered womans shelter locally. I suggest you jump back into your car and get back to CA PDQ.

 

[ElleMD]

Going back is a horrible idea. The kids are safe and with family which is far and away better than in a shelter or with an abuser. Abandoning the children to an abuser is an equally bad idea. This isn't even close to kidnapping. Parents take children to visit grandparents out of state all the time. They are her kids, she is entitled to take them where she pleases.

 

[txls]

We recently dealt with a similar situation with our grandkids and we told by the police "it is NOT kidnapping if it is your biological child." You do need to get a lawyer and get to court as soon as possible.

 

[ElleMD]

Just to clarify for others who might read this, parental kidnapping applies when there is a court order regarding custody/visitation and one parent violates that order by taking the children so as to interfere with the order. The law really doesn't care what two married people do as far as where the kids should live. The police only get involved in marital disagreements when a law is broken. There is no law that says married people must live together or that the kids must live where the father determines they should live.

 

[mightymoose]

You should expect parental kidnapping charges to be pressed.

This is not parental kidnapping. With the information given there is no law being broken regarding the kids.

If there was a situation where the children were being deliberately withheld from the other parent then there might be something to pursue but that is not the case. The parents have been in contact and offer has been made to arrange transportation/housing for visiting.

There is no reason to hurry back to California to avoid any criminal charges.

 

[mightymoose]

We recently dealt with a similar situation with our grandkids and we told by the police "it is NOT kidnapping if it is your biological child." You do need to get a lawyer and get to court as soon as possible.

California does have a law regarding child concealment if one parent takes deliberate action to prevent the other parent access to the children. The situation here does not reach that though.

Penal Code 278.5/278.7

 

[Proserpina]

We recently dealt with a similar situation with our grandkids and we told by the police "it is NOT kidnapping if it is your biological child." You do need to get a lawyer and get to court as soon as possible.

That is incorrect.

Biology has absolutely no bearing on the situation at all.

 

[Proserpina]

Back to parental kidnapping.

Elle: parental kidnapping applies when there is a court order regarding custody/visitation and one parent violates that order by taking the children so as to interfere with the order. The law really doesn't care what two married people do as far as where the kids should live. The police only get involved in marital disagreements when a law is broken. There is no law that says married people must live together or that the kids must live where the father determines they should live.

This isn't accurate. There does not need to be a court order present in order to successfully support a criminal charge. Seriously.


"You can't be charged with kidnapping your own children." you can, actually. But let's toss that idea for a wee while because what we're really discussing is more about custodial interference than anything else.

From Moose's info (which was very handy to have!)

California provides:

278.5. Deprivation of custody of child or right to visitation; punishment

(a) Every person who takes, entices away, keeps, withholds, or conceals a child and maliciously deprives a lawful custodian of a right to custody, or a person of a right to visitation, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and imprisonment, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 for 16 months, or two or three years, a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or both that fine and imprisonment.

(b) Nothing contained in this section limits the court's contempt power.

(c) A custody order obtained after the taking, enticing away, keeping, withholding, or concealing of a child does not constitute a defense to a crime charged under this section.

I'm not convinced that acting upon that would be reaching - because the parents are still married, I could see Dad's attorney wiping the floor with Mom even though it might not be the right thing to do.

 

[Proserpina]

Going back is a horrible idea. The kids are safe and with family which is far and away better than in a shelter or with an abuser. Abandoning the children to an abuser is an equally bad idea. This isn't even close to kidnapping. Parents take children to visit grandparents out of state all the time. They are her kids, she is entitled to take them where she pleases.

Elle, seriously - if taking her kids is deliberately thwarting Dad's access to HIS kids (and remembering that they're still married... ) she can get herself into a world of trouble.

 

[mightymoose]

Pro- PC 278.7 exempts mom from PC 278.5, provided she follows through with the appropriate reports.
The fact that dad knows where mom is and she has offered contact pretty much prevents any action though.

 

[Proserpina]

Alas there's no guarantee he'll tell the truth.

He does not appear to be the most willing and reliable parent in the world.

Y'know?

 

[mightymoose]

True enough, he could make the report, but that doesn't necessarily hurt mom.
I would imagine in the course of making a report he would unwittingly say enough to make it clear to any officer there was no malicious intent and it would be a civil issue.

 

[ElleMD]

Considering Mom is even willing to pay for Dad's costs to visit the kids, and isn't in any way restricting access, this isn't even close to kidnapping.