He was recently admitted to another hospital for observation and testing. The medical bills after insurance, medication will be hard to pay and now he has had extensive surgery and ongoing care. The bills have already started coming in, with him out of work there is no way we can pay. He cannot miss any bills payments because his employment can be affected. We are trying to prevent this.
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Husband has a disability and needs help recall info, sick and needs to withdrawal funds from 401k they wont distribute
- Thread Starter Mariashug
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First, I am very appreciative of your help and responses. I am so upset by this and my mind is spinning a million miles per minute. The entire reason that we are in this situation is because my husband did not know his employee ID. He had the first two numbers correct and then I helped him. This is when the person said you cannot help him. I informed her that he has issues recalling information because of a disability which affects his memory. I am by his side like an interpreter would be helping someone who didn't understand the language. I am not simply saying that they were discriminating against him solely based on having a disability. He needed an assistive device (me) to help him navigate. In the workplace all you have to do is to identify, to basically let someone know you need help. When you explain why you need help why should your request for help be denied until you jumped through hoops to prove it.
There are so many mean people in the world that take pride in hurting and stealing from others. They don't know me or him so we weren't expecting them to just believe it. The only reason that we had the POA in the first place is because we really felt that he wasn't going to make it still don't as he is only in recovery. We didn't even have to have the POA, again, the only reason is because we wanted to be prepared for the worse. Now, I am almost wondering what they would have done if I helped but didn't say we submitted the form, I wonder what would have happened then.
I am not trying to run this thing in the ground. If you only knew the level to which my husband is disabled and then having to tell that to several people over and over, it is humiliating to him. He's now saying I know you wished you didn't marry me. It hurts to my sole. He's a wonderful person and because of his deficits we have this issue. Thank you for your time and explanation. I need to slow down.
But, I am still not happy. I don't wish this upon anyone, especially for those living with intellectual disabilities. People who have obvious visual disabilities get faster and better service. It's not until you are knocked down, dragged through the dirt, forced to share personal details of your life and beg do you get the same respect. You watch the news day in and out and see untold numbers of unscrupulous people taking advantage of the elderly at banks, over the telephone and such and they never have to work this hard. It's a sad and difficult time in my household. I do appreciate you.
Zigner
Well-Known Member
The question has nothing to do with the situation your husband found himself in.
Let me rephrase your question:
If I told you that I had a visual impairment and had a disability because of it, and your policy required a POA to be on file with me before I did certain things involving third parties, would I make you provide that POA to me?
Zigner
Well-Known Member
I've not mentioned this previously, but the way you are describing things leads me to suspect that your husband may not be competent. You may wish to explore a conservatorship (which can be for a limited time).
cbg
Super Moderator
It's okay to take a 401(k) hardship withdrawal to pay medical bills that are not covered by insurance. If that's what you're going to use it for, there's no problem. It's if you were planning to use it for supplemental income, to pay household bills, that it would be at issue.
I think that they are similar except one is not by his choice but by the court. He's been with his employer for almost 20 years. Because he is loved by everyone, we all (to include his employer) have had a hand in managing his life behind the scenes, managers complete forms, annual reviews etc. for him, I complete all benefits, enrollment in the 401(k), everything. All of the neighbors love him, he is the ultimate likable person and is very gracious. The POA will be received and processed within a few days it just angered me that he explained why he could not recall his employee ID which caused this to become an issue for me.
There are many legality issues and IRS regulations that need to be followed dealing with a retirement plan so I understand the caution.
My wheels are spinning thinking of how I can prevent this from happening to others. His situation is very unique where people would have a difficult time understanding how he is coherent, sounds normal but can't recall information. This is a pickle for sure. Thanks for your input and suggestions.
Zigner
Well-Known Member
What you just said (probably without realizing it) is: I think they are similar except for the fact they are almost entirely different.
When one appoints a power of attorney, they give the other party permission to perform certain acts on their behalf. It is a conscious decision and requires the grantor to have the legal capacity to do so. The courts are not involved (that part you got right). The grantor can revoke a POA at any time.
When one is placed under a conservatorship, it means that the court determines that the person lacks the legal capacity to perform certain acts, thus another person is appointed to perform those acts on behalf of the one being placed under a conservatorship (the conservatee). The conservatee cannot revoke a conservatorship without the court being involved.
I intentionally chose "conservatorship" in your case because it has to do specifically with financial matters.
Zigner
Well-Known Member
I still don't understand why you don't just send a copy of the POA appointing you as his attorney-in-fact to the 401k company. Or, heck, just have him write and send an old-fashioned letter through the USPS. He can include whatever information he needs in the letter because he'll be able to look it up and won't be on the spot during a phone call.
You cannot send anything directly to the 401k firm. Only the third party can. I would think that the third party being with the same company that manages the leave program could just as easily confirm that they are in receipt of the POA that was already submitted. It's the same company they just don't share the information. Once I realized that they did not share information, I sent the information via another means to the area that manages the POA so that they can confirm they are in receipt.
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Oh my gosh. I thought that you and I were on the same page. He is UNABLE to write a letter.
I don't want anyone to take anything away from him. He is a kind person and I feel that if something were to happen to me that someone could come along and manipulate him. All of our children are ready to jump in and help him if I am not around. He worked so hard for everything that he has earned. He didn't know how to do anything. He now has a license and can drive, has had multiple vehicles, got married, is the only person in his family that has owned a home/multiple homes in really great places, traveled around the world, and has a fantastic job that loves him....I don't want anyone to ever take those things away from him. He isn't able to revoke conservatorship. I wouldn't want him to want to remove me or anyone else and wouldn't be able to. The durable POA is the best.
He looks like your guy next door. You would not be able to determine by looking at him that he is incapable of these things. He can carry on a conversation, tell jokes, laugh, drive, I mean everything but he has deficits that impossible to overcome. He is almost a 60 year old man.
I do not know the legal ins and outs of hardship withdrawals from a 401 plan. But having read this thread as it was being posted. I have to ask, if your husband has a 20-year work history and is as disabled as you say, then why can't he apply for SSDI and leave his 401 to continue appreciating? It doesn't sound like he will be returning to his employment.
He was on disability as a infant until we met. He has worked every day since roughly. He health is improving and will possibly return to work. He actually applied to a job where he works prior to going out. The hiring manager is someone that he trained when she came onboard and since she left the job about 13 years ago whenever she saw him working she told him you know I'll always have a job for you. Finally, not being afraid he applied. When he got sick they were in the middle of candidates reviews. He told her that he will have surgery and would back out of the office. She said no problem, she is holding the job for him. She knows all of the limitations because he made her aware 13 years ago and she said we are a team and we are going to help you. It's a blessing and it took him many many years to get up the courage to leave his current job. Other employees saw him going to interview and the word got back to his management team, people were hugging him and some tears shed. Even with his limitations, he earns almost a six figure salary. That is something to be extremely proud of. The plan is to return to work but when he has the follow-up with the surgeon, he'll dictate the path.
I don't know any other way to describe him and I don't want to come across as being insensitive or mean. But some after speaking to him may say to themselves he is simpleminded but, its that simple minded attitude and behavior that draws people to him. He works in a place that has a lot of powerful people. These people will seek him out and invite him to events at work. His coworkers asks him do you know who that is and he is like no. He treats everyone the same because he doesn't distinguish from the top ranking people to the custodian. He's the person you see at the store and greets you and ask how the family is and always has something encouraging to say.
If he is able to return to work and take the job that has been held for him, he will be so thrilled to go even if he can only stay short-term. It's a lot to have to manage everything but there is a balance. He picks up the slack to make himself worthy. As I am reading this long post, as much work as it take to help him along in life, I am very proud of him. Because of our innocence and willing to share and be truthful and share things with others is what made it hurt so much when we had to go outside of our bubble and have someone refuse to allow him to access his account when he said I can't, I am unable. Thanks for your suggestion, it's not off of the table but he wants to see what he can do if or when he returns to work.
There are many statutes a regulations pertaining to how a person that has a disability should be treated. In the workplace, no one is obligated to disclose they have a disability and if they do, they do not have to state what that disability is.
When you need a service, just informing an entity that you help should suffice. This rule may not be the exact but I searched under health and medical care and banking. It all says the same that you have to allow the person with the disability to say this is what I need.
Some reg
The Department stresses that privacy and confidentiality must be maintained but notes that covered entities, such as hospitals, that are subject to the Privacy Rules, 45 CFR parts 160 and 164, of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), Public Law 104–191, are permitted to disclose to a patient's relative, close friend, or any other person identified by the patient (such as an interpreter) relevant patient information if the patient agrees to such disclosures. See 45 CFR parts 160 and 164. The agreement need not be in writing. Covered entities should consult the HIPAA Privacy Rules regarding other ways disclosures may be made to such persons.
With regard to emergency situations, proposed § 36.303(c)(3) permitted reliance on an individual accompanying an individual with a disability to interpret or facilitate communication in an emergency involving a threat to the safety or welfare of an individual or the public. Commenters requested that the Department make clear that often a public accommodation can obtain appropriate auxiliary aids and services in advance of an emergency, particularly in anticipated emergencies, such as predicted dangerous weather, or in certain medical situations, such as pending childbirth, by making necessary pre-arrangements. These commenters did not want public accommodations to be relieved of their responsibilities to provide effective communication in emergency situations noting that the need for effective communication in emergencies is heightened. For the same reason, several commenters requested a separate rule that requires public accommodations to provide timely and effective communication in the event of an emergency.
Because I worked in employment laws within a business, I am familiar with the rules. Each company should have staff trained and if someone says they need help they should be allowed to get it. You would not make a blind person prove that they were unable to see. You would not make someone who could not understand your language due a processing issue not to have a companion or such with them to explain what is going on.
I know that people keep saying that this is not an issue of discrimination, maybe/maybe not but the issue is, informing an entity multiple times that you need help understanding and this person is here to help me and you not only deny them rights to make changes but you also block their access to an online account.
I can't wait to see how this turns out. Thank you all for help me look at this from different angles.
When you need a service, just informing an entity that you help should suffice. This rule may not be the exact but I searched under health and medical care and banking. It all says the same that you have to allow the person with the disability to say this is what I need.
Some reg
The Department stresses that privacy and confidentiality must be maintained but notes that covered entities, such as hospitals, that are subject to the Privacy Rules, 45 CFR parts 160 and 164, of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), Public Law 104–191, are permitted to disclose to a patient's relative, close friend, or any other person identified by the patient (such as an interpreter) relevant patient information if the patient agrees to such disclosures. See 45 CFR parts 160 and 164. The agreement need not be in writing. Covered entities should consult the HIPAA Privacy Rules regarding other ways disclosures may be made to such persons.
With regard to emergency situations, proposed § 36.303(c)(3) permitted reliance on an individual accompanying an individual with a disability to interpret or facilitate communication in an emergency involving a threat to the safety or welfare of an individual or the public. Commenters requested that the Department make clear that often a public accommodation can obtain appropriate auxiliary aids and services in advance of an emergency, particularly in anticipated emergencies, such as predicted dangerous weather, or in certain medical situations, such as pending childbirth, by making necessary pre-arrangements. These commenters did not want public accommodations to be relieved of their responsibilities to provide effective communication in emergency situations noting that the need for effective communication in emergencies is heightened. For the same reason, several commenters requested a separate rule that requires public accommodations to provide timely and effective communication in the event of an emergency.
Because I worked in employment laws within a business, I am familiar with the rules. Each company should have staff trained and if someone says they need help they should be allowed to get it. You would not make a blind person prove that they were unable to see. You would not make someone who could not understand your language due a processing issue not to have a companion or such with them to explain what is going on.
I know that people keep saying that this is not an issue of discrimination, maybe/maybe not but the issue is, informing an entity multiple times that you need help understanding and this person is here to help me and you not only deny them rights to make changes but you also block their access to an online account.
I can't wait to see how this turns out. Thank you all for help me look at this from different angles.
Zigner
Well-Known Member
Why are you being so obtuse about this. He doesn't have to be the one to physically write the letter. He can dictate it and simply sign it (or make his mark, or whatever). Really, the more you talk about him, the more it sounds like he may be legally incompetent and need someone to apply for a conservatorship.
adjusterjack
Super Moderator
I deleted your other post as a duplicate.
I am sorry for what you and your husband are going through.
But you have repeatedly been told by two lawyers and an employee benefits expert (and others) that nothing wrong or illegal has been done to your husband.
Yet you can't seem to accept that.
We can be of no further help to you.
Thread locked.
I am sorry for what you and your husband are going through.
But you have repeatedly been told by two lawyers and an employee benefits expert (and others) that nothing wrong or illegal has been done to your husband.
Yet you can't seem to accept that.
We can be of no further help to you.
Thread locked.
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