Alcohol & Drugs: MIP, MIC, Intoxication Once in a lifetime situation- help needed

[lars888]

Jurisdiction

Pennsylvania

Posting this for a friend very interesting situation:

About a month ago friend posted bottle of rare liquor for sale online for $3000. Was contacted by someone and they agreed to meet in Pennsylvania. After the exchange the buyer was undercover cop. Three of them. Confiscated the bottle put my friend in handcuffs took his license and asked him a bunch of questions. The cop said he would receive summons in mail to go to police station to be finger printed and photo. Uncuffed and let him go after maybe 10 minutes. Does this mean he was arrested?

Bringing liquor over border from NJ to Pennsylvania is illegal and so is selling alcohol without license.

Is this misdemeanor or felony? Should my friend hire attorney before or after getting summons in mail to go to police station?

Whats best course of action moving forward for my friend?
Is he looking at potential jail time?
His goal: "to have nothing permanent on my record that may jeopardize me getting a job"

Any feedback very much appreciated or if anyone has been in a similar situation. At this point my friend doesn't know exactly what he is being charged with..

 

[army judge]

Anyone charged with a crime should appear in court as directed, plead NOT guilty, refuse to discuss the case, and ask if he/she is eligible for a public defender; otherwise he or she should hire a lawyer.

Not much more to do. until the defendant meets with her/his lawyer and discusses the case and charges in detail.

Nothing difficult about any of that, and the less said about it, the better for the defendant.


Buyers beware: Police target ‘bootleggers’ who buy liquor in Delaware

Cops Seized Couple's $160,000 Wine Collection—And Want to Destroy It All





You can read all about PA's liquor laws and their state owned liquor stores:

Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board - Home

Alcohol laws of Pennsylvania - Wikipedia

 

[lars888]

Thanks for the links but thats not exactly very helpful and you didn't answer my questions..

Yes my friend has already made moves to consult with lawyers

Already confirm it is illegal to "smuggle" alcohol over borders into PA and to sell alcohol without license

Again- my friend does not know exactly what he is being charged with which is what makes this more difficult, but he knows something is coming in mail

Yes there is proof that he tried to sell bottles illegally (post made online and text messages with undercover). I was there with friend at time of incident. You still advise my friend to plead not guilty?

Is he looking at potential jail time???

 

[lars888]

My friend is also wondering if he can potentially go after the cops in some way.. We live in NJ and undercover from PA were the ones to initially contact him?

This is too crazy, the undercovers literally looked like scumbag crackheads (not that this is relevant) but abuse of power or they were just bored is not unreasonable?

 

[army judge]

Again- my friend does not know exactly what he is being charged with which is what makes this more difficult, but he knows something is coming in mail

Yes there is proof that he tried to sell bottles illegally (post made online and text messages with undercover). I was there with friend at time of incident. You still advise my friend to plead not guilty?

Is he looking at potential jail time???

I am not a psychic, just a poor, old, Texas Hill Country lawyer and judge.

If your friend doesn't know his charges because he has yet to be notified, there is no an old dummy sitting on a 4,000 head working cattle ranch to know either.

I suggest you, err, your friend wait until the promised correspondence arrives.

As far as my response being helpful, did you expect it to be for FREE?

Bottom line, you, err your pal could have been scammed.

You, err, he/she will have to wait and see what transpires.

 

[lars888]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I am starting to understand the situation a little more.

Do you still advise my friend to plead not guilty???

In your opinion is this a very serious offense? How does the situation change if he is charged with misdemeanor vs felony?

How much difference does lawyer vs free public defender make?

I just facetime my friend and more or less am looking to soothe him but be realistic with the consequences to come. I grew up with him and we are practically brothers.. The undercovers never asked me a single thing do I have anything to worry about just being at the scene of the crime? The way the entire situation was handled it seems very unprofessional and what about taking action against these cops that initiated the exchange?

He told me a lawyer he has spoken to said this: Do not speak to anyone about the situation. Why? Pay 1000$ retainer fee and he would start working on the case and go to preliminary trial with him with potentially more charges/fees to come. This is a lot of money to us. He doesn't want his parents to find out about this situation. I feel for him and feel I have just as much liability as he does. In your professional opinion besides just waiting for the correspondence to arrive what other preventive measures can he take to control damage? I care about him

 

[lars888]

Also what do you mean by scammed???

 

[army judge]

If he described the cops as looking "scruffy", they may have been undercover.

If they weren't undercover, they may have been scammers.

If they were scammers, all he is out of is a bottle of booze.

If they were real cops, he'll get some written correspondence explaining everything.

My GUESS is this is more of a civil offense, because the state's business has been challenged in their opinion.

I GUESS that is why they enforce aggressively their liquor laws, and operate their state liquor stores, for profit.

It seems reminiscent of New York City and they way they enforce cigarettes from out of state, untaxed from the southern states.

I suggest you advise him to be patient, and maybe nothing more happens.

Worrying accomplishes nothing.

If he gets a letter, I suspect the state will want money, lots of loot, maybe another $1,000 as a fine, add in $500 in costs and fees.

I doubt he'll get any jail or prison time, and probation might be a nonstarter, too, as long as he pays whatever money the eventually demand.

If its more more than money, it might be a suspended sentence for 6 months or so.

That means he pays money, stays out of additional criminal trouble, and the charge and case get dismissed.

Those are just guesses, because until he gets the letter, he knows more than you and I together, as neither of us were present.

 

[mightymoose]

He was released without even a citation listing the offense?
I assume the liquor was confiscated. Did he get a receipt for it?
A case number?
Anything?
I agree it sounds suspicious and could have been a scam.
Does he know what agency the officers were with? If so, call them and ask for a case number and a receipt for the confiscated evidence.
Don't bother with an attorney until some legitimate contact is made by law enforcement.
If it was a scam there may be nothing coming and money will be wasted on an attorney.

 

[lars888]

I just conferred with my partner in crime and no he was not given a case number or a receipt for the confiscated bottle. Is it standard to receive citation or receipt for confiscated evidence or some sort of written document right away? What is worrying is that he was handcuffed but only one of the three supposed undercovers quickly flashed his badge.. He was only told that something would be coming in the mail where he would have to report to the police station to be fingerprinted and photos taken to be put in the system. He gave these guys his home address and info where he goes to school.. They also asked for social security number but he told them he doesn't remember it.. Would they ask for SSN in a situation like this?

If they were scammers..

He was given a card and it says Pennsylvania State Police Bureau of Liquor Control Enforcement with officers name on it and contact info.

After taking more careful look at the card, the address for the office says 3655 Vartan Way, Harrisburg, PA, 17710 BUT after looking it up online the actual area code of Harrisburg PA is 17110.. Is this a coincidence? I can post the card here if you guys are interested to take a look.

Just called and they are closed. Operating hours 8:15-4pm EST.

I will call tomorrow and report back.

What exactly should I say on the call and who should I ask to speak to? I feel dumb saying undercovers handcuffed me and took my bottle whats the case number and receipt?

Mightymoose thank you for the insightful advice..

I'd honestly rather them be scammers

 

[army judge]

I just conferred with my partner in crime and no he was not given a case number or a receipt for the confiscated bottle. Is that standard? What is worrying is that he was handcuffed but only one of the three supposed undercovers quickly flashed his badge.. He was only told that something would be coming in the mail where he would have to report to the police station to be fingerprinted and photos taken to be put in the system.

He was given a card and it says Pennsylvania State Police Bureau of Liquor Control Enforcement with officers name on it and contact info.

After taking more careful look at the card, the address for the office says 3655 Vartan Way, Harrisburg, PA, 17710 BUT after looking it up online the actual area code of Harrisburg PA is 17110.. Is this a coincidence? I can post the card here if you guys are interested to take a look.

Just called and they are closed. Operating hours 8:15-4pm EST.

I will call tomorrow and report back.

What exactly should I say on the call and who should I ask to speak to? I feel dumb saying undercovers handcuffed me and took my bottle whats the case number and receipt?

Mightymoose thank you for the solid advice..

If I were you, I'd wait.

If you were scammed, nothing you can do to get the booze back.

But, you won't face any legal dilemmas, either.

Be patient, see what transpires.

If they were scammers, at least no one got hurt or ended up dead.

Count your blessings, and be smarter next time.

If you sell stuff, always meet in the lobby of a police station to make the transaction.

 

[lars888]

Yea its a little far-fetched honestly I don't think they were scammers but its possible I don't know what to think now I'm very upset about the entire situation

 

[lars888]

Only one of the undercover cops showed him a badge but he did give him a card

He was released without even a citation listing the offense?
I assume the liquor was confiscated. Did he get a receipt for it?
A case number?
Anything?
I agree it sounds suspicious and could have been a scam.
Does he know what agency the officers were with? If so, call them and ask for a case number and a receipt for the confiscated evidence.
Don't bother with an attorney until some legitimate contact is made by law enforcement.
If it was a scam there may be nothing coming and money will be wasted on an attorney.

Please advise on what to say when calling? Would I be hurting my friend by doing so in anyway?

 

[zddoodah]

After the exchange the buyer was undercover cop. Three of them.

What does "three of them" mean? The buyer obviously could not have been three different persons.

Does this mean he was arrested?

No.

Is this misdemeanor or felony?

I'm guessing misdemeanor, but you can google it as well as I can.

Should my friend hire attorney before or after getting summons in mail to go to police station?

Since it's possible that nothing will come of this, there's probably no need to hire a lawyer now.

Whats best course of action moving forward for my friend?

For starters, he should speak about this incident and the underlying facts with no one other than an attorney. Beyond that, we have no way of knowing what's best for someone we don't know, although if I were communicating directly with him, I would tell him to ask/demand that you do whatever is necessary to delete this thread so that there isn't a(nother) traceable record of his criminal activity on the internet.

His goal: "to have nothing permanent on my record that may jeopardize me getting a job"

If the police or prosecutor pursue this further, then that ship has sailed. He should have thought about this before committing the crime.

my friend does not know exactly what he is being charged with

It's possible that he is not and won't ever be charged with anything. He hasn't been charged until an indictment issues or a criminal complaint is filed.

My friend is also wondering if he can potentially go after the cops in some way.

I haven't the slightest idea what you might have in mind here, but the cops aren't the ones who broke the law.

We live in NJ and undercover from PA were the ones to initially contact him?

Despite your use of a question mark, this sentence isn't a question. If you intended a question, I cannot discern what you intended to ask.

This is too crazy, the undercovers literally looked like scumbag crackheads (not that this is relevant) but abuse of power or they were just bored is not unreasonable?

Huh?

How much difference does lawyer vs free public defender make?

Depends on all the relevant facts and circumstances, including your friend's ability to pay for a private attorney.

He told me a lawyer he has spoken to said this: Do not speak to anyone about the situation. Why?

Because anything he says can be used against him in court, and nothing he might say is likely to help his situation.

After taking more careful look at the card, the address for the office says 3655 Vartan Way, Harrisburg, PA, 17710 BUT after looking it up online the actual area code of Harrisburg PA is 17110.. Is this a coincidence?

Coincidence? It appears to be a typo.

What exactly should I say on the call and who should I ask to speak to? I feel dumb saying undercovers handcuffed me and took my bottle whats the case number and receipt?

I can't tell...are you still pretending to be someone else or have you dropped that ruse? If you're not the criminal, I would suggest you not do anything. If you are the criminal, I see nothing good that might come from calling.

 

[lars888]

@zddoodah
Yes the buyers were three different supposed cops

Thanks..

I didn't mean to go after cops hurt them physically but isn't it illegal for cops to provoke someone into committing a crime? Maybe I'm terribly mistaken but not out of line to consider it

Typo on business card coincidence?? So you don't think they were scammers? No I'm not a criminal but I do see good in calling to confirm for the sake of my friend- not saying its the best move but am considering it

waiting for citation to come in the mail if one at all just isn't the answer me or my friend are satisfied with

Here for more advice and different points of view

 

[mightymoose]

Only one of the undercover cops showed him a badge but he did give him a card

It seems unusual to me to walk away with only a business card and no citation. Your friend should have signed a promise to appear document and received a copy. I'd also be concerned that something of that value was taken and no receipt given.

Please advise on what to say when calling? Would I be hurting my friend by doing so in anyway?

If it were me I would simply ask to talk to the person named on the card to inquire about a property receipt. The liquor still belongs to your friend and he may want to keep track of it. Doing this will also tell you the whole thing was legitimate.
They may not talk to you though... Your friend may have to get this information directly.

 

[lars888]

How can I prove entrapment? I read the text messages sent back and fourth from said cop and they are rediculous

 

[army judge]

How can I prove entrapment? I read the text messages sent back and fourth from said cop and they are rediculous

I'm guessing, the more I consider all of this, that your were scammed.

Cops don't hand out business's cards with faulty addresses after confiscating private property and mailing you an invitation to attend your own arrest and court party.

Forget entrapment, you were scammed.

You'll never get a letter, a citation, or your booze back.

If I were you I'd use this as a lesson in life, and be thankful none of you we're raped, stabbed, murdered, or stripped naked and abandoned 10 miles outside of town.

 

[zddoodah]

isn't it illegal for cops to provoke someone into committing a crime?

A criminal defendant can claim "entrapment" if he is induced by a cop to commit a crime he was not otherwise predisposed to commit. That's not what happened here. Your friend advertised that he was willing to sell the item in violation of law. He was already intending to commit the crime before the police were ever involved.

So you don't think they were scammers?

I don't have the slightest idea.

waiting for citation to come in the mail if one at all just isn't the answer me or my friend are satisfied with

If your friend doesn't like the free information he obtains from anonymous strangers on the internet, via you, he is free to hire an attorney to get a potentially different answer.

How can I prove entrapment?

You can't. You're not the defendant and you're not a lawyer. This has nothing to do with you. If your friend is ever charged with anything, he is free to discuss this with his lawyer, but see my comments above regarding entrapment.

 

[mightymoose]

What you describe is not entrapment.