I report to the county that I live in, every 90 days, to update answers for a list of pre-set questions, such as address, phone number, automobiles, email address, employer, etc. Then I sign it stating that it's true. Within the next 90 days, I will be visited by city police and county police, with copies of my answers to those questions, informing me that they are only trying to verify my answers. I want to know what is the requirement, in law, that I am to answer the questions that I have already answered at the 90 day report? What are the requirements of me answering questions that aren't on the list such as, is my cell phone a smart phone, how many computers do I own, can they come in and look at them, do I have a passport, can they see it, do I do this or that and on and on? I realize that the average citizen doesn't have to answer those questions, but everybody knows that the ones of us who have committed the unforgiveable crime don't deserve anything, so please spare me all the usual answers of all the different ways I should burn in hell for a crime I committed 32 yrs ago. I really would like to know if the police can, under the threat of arrest, force me to answer questions that are not required in writing, by law. Do the police have the right to stand there, on my porch, with one hand on the butt of their pistol, in front of my wife, children, and neighbors, demand that I answer their questions? Do I even have to answer my door? One other question is, since the Mo. State Police mail me a letter, telling me what my requirements are concerning that letter, am I required by law to do it? Am I even required by law to open my mailbox, take out a letter, and then do everything the letter says to do, just because it's from the police?
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Sex Crimes, Sex Offenders Sex Offender Registry
- Thread Starter Gibender
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shrinkmaster
Well-Known Member
Why are you trying to stir the pot?
Proserpina
Moderator
Explain please?
Maybe you didn't understand what I'm getting at. Every 90 days, for the last 15 years, I go to the same place, say the same thing, sign the same thing. In that 90 day period, the local police, and the county police, and the state police, come to my door to ask questions that ARE NOT in the requirements of the sex offender registry, under the pretense of registry verification. They come to the address I gave them and see me. I tell them the cars I drive, they're sitting in the driveway. They call my phone number, I answer. What is this verification process that asks "can they come in my house and look around"? As far as I know, in America, I thought we were free from that type of government intrusion. I'm not stupid, I'm not new to these situations, so spare me the simple "verification" reasoning. Also, I have been clear of the justice system since 1991, and even though I believe the registry is expo facto, I do agree that it is my "civil duty" to register, so I do. It is the perception of harassment by the police that I question. I thought this was a forum for discussing laws and rights of US citizens, regardless of what a personal opinion is of criminals. Apparently I was mistaken!!!
Proserpina
Moderator
Okey dokey.
If you're going to suggest to me that I should roll with the flow because, "as long as I'm not doing anything wrong, I don't need freedoms", than there is no reason for us to debate.
Proserpina
Moderator
That's good - because this really isn't a debate forum.
Actually, I do think that the forum should be a place for people to question why the law is the way it is as well as the rationale and justification for what they are experiencing. This is very different than "agenda posting" which is when someone comes here with a desire to publicize their issue and attract attention in a marketing oriented manner. I think it's perfectly fine to discuss this topic.
This is a tough question to answer. I don't know the details of the specific crime. I also don't know what town in Missouri you live. I will say that I've seen some unusual things happen in smaller towns where law enforcement were able to get away with things that they wouldn't elsewhere. Sex offenders whose crimes concern child abuse will bear a heavy burden. Laws may not be changed for a long time - they are slow to reflect the times. Perhaps you should take a look at this article on a potential change in the Missouri Considering Changing its Sex Offender Registry Rules.
I found the following
Missouri Sexual Offender Registration
Per Missouri Revised Statute
589.400 to 589.425
When Must an Offender Register (589.400)
Within 10 days of conviction, release from incarceration, or placed on probation the offender must register with the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO)
Within 10 days of moving into state
Within 10 days of changing address
Every offender must register in the month of his or her birth and every 6 months thereafter; predatory or persistent sexual offenders must register every 90 days.
An offender must complete a yellow "Missouri Offender Registration" fingerprint card with the CLEO of the county of where they expect to reside. (Reside is defined by section 566.147 in RSMo as sleeps in a residence which may include more than one location and may be mobile on transitory)
Within three (3) days of completing the offender registration card, the CLEO should submit the offender registration information to the Missouri State Highway Patrol's Criminal Records and Identification Division.
The CLEO is responsible for informing any institution of higher education when an offender is employed, carries on a vocation, or is a student.
The registration requirements of Section 589.400 through 589.425 are lifetime registration requirements unless all offenses requiring registration are reversed, vacated or set aside, the registrant is pardoned of the offenses requiring registration, or petitions are filed and granted with the court under the appropriate circumstances.
For processing an initial sex offender registration, the chief law enforcement officer of the county may charge the offender registering a fee of up to ten ($10) dollars (589.400.4), and for any processing change pursuant to section 589.414, the CLEO of the county may charge the person changing their registration a fee of five ($5) dollars for each change made after the initial registration.
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What Information must the offender provide?
Name and Date of Birth
Alias Names and Alias Dates of Birth
Physical Description of offender (i.e. age, sex, race, height, and weight.)
Addresses: home, work, school, temporary address
Any photographs: required one per year
Vehicle: year, make, model, color, license plate, license state
Nature and Dates of Offenses
Release Date
This is a tough question to answer. I don't know the details of the specific crime. I also don't know what town in Missouri you live. I will say that I've seen some unusual things happen in smaller towns where law enforcement were able to get away with things that they wouldn't elsewhere. Sex offenders whose crimes concern child abuse will bear a heavy burden. Laws may not be changed for a long time - they are slow to reflect the times. Perhaps you should take a look at this article on a potential change in the Missouri Considering Changing its Sex Offender Registry Rules.
I found the following
Missouri Sexual Offender Registration
Per Missouri Revised Statute
589.400 to 589.425
When Must an Offender Register (589.400)
Within 10 days of conviction, release from incarceration, or placed on probation the offender must register with the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO)
Within 10 days of moving into state
Within 10 days of changing address
Every offender must register in the month of his or her birth and every 6 months thereafter; predatory or persistent sexual offenders must register every 90 days.
An offender must complete a yellow "Missouri Offender Registration" fingerprint card with the CLEO of the county of where they expect to reside. (Reside is defined by section 566.147 in RSMo as sleeps in a residence which may include more than one location and may be mobile on transitory)
Within three (3) days of completing the offender registration card, the CLEO should submit the offender registration information to the Missouri State Highway Patrol's Criminal Records and Identification Division.
The CLEO is responsible for informing any institution of higher education when an offender is employed, carries on a vocation, or is a student.
The registration requirements of Section 589.400 through 589.425 are lifetime registration requirements unless all offenses requiring registration are reversed, vacated or set aside, the registrant is pardoned of the offenses requiring registration, or petitions are filed and granted with the court under the appropriate circumstances.
For processing an initial sex offender registration, the chief law enforcement officer of the county may charge the offender registering a fee of up to ten ($10) dollars (589.400.4), and for any processing change pursuant to section 589.414, the CLEO of the county may charge the person changing their registration a fee of five ($5) dollars for each change made after the initial registration.
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What Information must the offender provide?
Name and Date of Birth
Alias Names and Alias Dates of Birth
Physical Description of offender (i.e. age, sex, race, height, and weight.)
Addresses: home, work, school, temporary address
Any photographs: required one per year
Vehicle: year, make, model, color, license plate, license state
Nature and Dates of Offenses
Release Date
shrinkmaster
Well-Known Member
Your on probation due to your committing a crime there are conditions to your freedom. One such condition appears to be this letter which is easier and less intrusive than coming to your home or calling you! Its a simple communication required on your probation so again why stir the pot? Do you have something to hide? If not then this letter is easier for all concerned parties. Does that help?
Where did you see the part of me being on probation? I was released from the system in 1991. That was 22 yrs ago. I am a citizen with rights like everyone else, except for the firearm laws. I vote, I sit on juries, I pay taxes, I work a job, etc. The letter is not my qualm. I don't understand why I can't get this message across. I don't want to rewrite what I have already written. Do me a small favor, and go back and re-read my post from yesterday a little slower and try not to let the words, "sex offender" blur your vision.
shrinkmaster
Well-Known Member
You are a registered sex offender for "life" this has terms you can call probation or whatever you wish. If you want to avoid trouble with the Police I would comply with the letters request. If you are now the law abiding citizen you claim to be this should not be an issue.
disagreeable
Well-Known Member
Obviously, if you are required to report for life, you were a really bad boy. It appears these followups are to make sure you stay a good boy. Statistically, many offenders repeat. Stop and think about some of the cases in the news recently, where proactive actions by police would have possibly revealed in home captives. You can certainly consult a lawyer or the ACLU to ascertain if your rights a being violated by or on these visits.
shrinkmaster
Well-Known Member
How a letter with some reporting instruction would violate any of his rights is baffling.
I'm really not sure what your credentials are here. You do realize, that there are legal differences between things like parole, probation, and Sex Offender Registry. If you believe that they are one in the same, you may consider a refresher course in basic criminal justice. I reject your comment that I would not be a "law abiding citizen" because I question the authority of police to interpret laws to justify their actions. The definition "of stirring the pot" is that I proclaim that I should be free of undue questioning that is completely unrelated to my 1984 conviction or anything that is mandated by SORNA, so I ask if anyone knows the law that requires me to answer those questions? That's ridiculous!!! And the one question you ask of me concerning hiding something is the most ludicrous of them all. Why won't I let the police in my house, to look at my computer, check out my cell phone messages, or rifle through my dresser drawers? Of course I'm hiding things. I'm hiding my bank account, my paycheck stubs, my personal journal, my adult diapers for my lack of bladder control, my collection Of "Casper: The Friendly Ghost" cartoons, and everything else that belongs to me, my wife, my children, my grandchildren and anything else that anybody in the world that has brought something in my home. Can you tell me when, in the USA, has that become probable cause for investigating illegal activity? I apologize if I sound rude, I really don't mean to be. I am 60 yrs old, I am a Viet Nam war vet, I was a Military Policeman, I've raised 6 children, I've been married for 38 yrs to my childhood sweetheart, I am a registered Republican, I have college degrees in business, accounting, engineering technologies, and Criminal Justice. I was looking for some insight on citizens rights, and police harassment when it applies to Missouri's sex offender registry. I certainly was not expecting the philosophy of, "As long as I behave, I don't need rights"!
Betty3
Well-Known Member
I think the poster's concern is not just the letter or having to go & register every 90 days, complete a form & sign it but the police coming out to the house to verify the information he signed & also asking add'l. questions not on the form along with wanting to see his computers, passport, etc.
I'm just saying I think that is original poster's concern.
I'm just saying I think that is original poster's concern.
I agree with Betty3 here. And I'm not at all going to diminish what a sex crime means. It appears that the OP is at wit's end. He committed a crime. He paid for it. He served in the army. He pays taxes. He says he's tried to do what he can to live the good life and seems bewildered that, after several decades, he can't just suffer the indignity of being listed as a registered offender and required to comply with requirements one might consider reasonable on a periodic basis.
The truth is that I am not fully aware of the full set of requirements that a registered sex offender is required to comply. I don't specialize specifically in criminal law and I am not a licensed criminal lawyer in your state. I'm curious to know what is generally required and will ask one of my colleagues out of curiosity just how far the questioning can go.
In general, the constitution limits searches to a "probable cause" standard, as you almost certainly know. I would tend to think that the details of all the questions you speak must be limited since there would be no probable cause to perform a search. While there are certain exceptions in certain circumstances, this does not seem to be one of them. In some instances, these requests for searching your property may be forceful and designed to elicit a scared "nothing to hide response" and you may not have to comply with them.
So I'll ask this - does the original poster have any reason to believe that law enforcement is simply harassing him because they can? Every three months? Is this really worth their time? What do you think the motivation for this is? Apparently there are some requirements I've posted but you seem to imply that they are stretching beyond reasonable and legal boundaries.
The truth is that I am not fully aware of the full set of requirements that a registered sex offender is required to comply. I don't specialize specifically in criminal law and I am not a licensed criminal lawyer in your state. I'm curious to know what is generally required and will ask one of my colleagues out of curiosity just how far the questioning can go.
In general, the constitution limits searches to a "probable cause" standard, as you almost certainly know. I would tend to think that the details of all the questions you speak must be limited since there would be no probable cause to perform a search. While there are certain exceptions in certain circumstances, this does not seem to be one of them. In some instances, these requests for searching your property may be forceful and designed to elicit a scared "nothing to hide response" and you may not have to comply with them.
So I'll ask this - does the original poster have any reason to believe that law enforcement is simply harassing him because they can? Every three months? Is this really worth their time? What do you think the motivation for this is? Apparently there are some requirements I've posted but you seem to imply that they are stretching beyond reasonable and legal boundaries.
AAGGHHHHH!!!!!! What is the matter with you? Can't you people understand the English language? IT IS NOT THE LETTER!!!
My God, what do I have to say to get your brain to stop thinking about letters and sex offenders!!!!
I will make one more attempt with a hypothetical situation. Let's pretend that 32 years ago that YOU, received a DUI (driving under the influence) conviction. Now, its is 32 years into the future. Are you still with me? It is now 2013, I am a policeman! I knock on your door. My partner is standing off to the side with his hand on his service revolver, because we have the right to protect ourselves from you. I inform you that there are new laws concerning DUI's. The level of alcohol in your blood 32 yrs ago is now the requirement for a DWI. (driving while intoxicated). This is a serious crime, and since you have a history, we felt that it would be beneficial to our community that you were aware of that. By the way, since we are here, would you mind if we come in and see if you have anything alcohol related in your house. Maybe you could show me a grocery receipt with your alcohol bill? Or how about a restaurant receipt with the bar tab?
Are you still with me? Notice that I have just used a 32 yr old conviction to try to obtain a unrelated search of your home. Now bare with me for one more hypothetical! For the next 12 years, every 3 months, the city police, the county police, the state police contact you, with the same ploy. This will be a total of 12 visits a year. It will be 144 visits over the next 12 years.
Now answer this question. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT! If you are, hooraaaaay for you, but I'm certainly not.
I don't know where the thank you button is, because I want to thank you. For a minute, I thought I really didn't know how to explain myself.
shrinkmaster
Well-Known Member
Once again I have to ask why is this an issue? If he is the perfect citizen he claims to be then the questions are not an issue. I understand you have turned your life around but until the law changes on what a registered sex offender must do then answer the questions unless the answers will incriminate you! Far as credentials go your dealing with volunteers not lawyers! If you seek actual legal advice make an appointment with a local Attorney familiar with your local laws and licensed to practice in your jurisdiction
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At bottom of every page "The content contained on this legal website is for informational purposes only. It should not be considered legal advice from a licensed professional. It is available AS IS and subject to our legal disclaimer and terms of use. Using this website does not create an attorney-client relationship. Always consult with a lawyer before making any legal decision. "
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