Should I write up or fire my employee again for harassment?

Managerboss1

New Member
Jurisdiction
New York
I'm a store manager at a retail outlet mall and recently, I wrote up an employee over harassment, even though the behavior doesn't meet the legal definition of harassment.

My assistant store manager came to me that she and who I will call employee A were talking about gay rights. Within that conversation, employee A stated that employee B made her uncomfortable a year prior because employee B made a comment that the idea of same-sex relationships are weird. Also, in that conversation was another person, who I will call employee C. I was shocked and horrified by this revelation and asked my assistant why neither employee A and C came to me right away about this highly inappropriate discussion. My assistant store manager claims that employee B made both employee A and C horribly scared of working with B, even though A and B closed multiple times together, that they're scared for their life and that must've been why they didn't say anything until a year later, employee A had been ruminating about the event since a year ago, and that employee B must've gotten up in their faces and intimidated A and C to not speak up.

I talk to employee A, who confirms the allegations, but she kept telling us that it happened a year ago, that she's over it, and that it's nothing and the assistant manager didn't have her consent to report it. I then call employee C who gave me more information that employee B asked employee C's views on the political landscape and asked if C believed in God. I then investigate harassment and sexual harassment under the employee handbook. Unfortunately, neither employee A and C made it known to employee B that the behavior was making them uncomfortable, there was no repeated discussions after this incident, employee B doesn't have a record of anything and has been a stellar employee, I spoke to all my other employees and no one has said that employee B say anything harassing since then or before, employee B has treated everyone kindly and friendly, this incident occurred a year prior, and with that, it wouldn't fall under legal harassment according to harassment laws federally and in the employee handbook. I still write up the employee for harassment. When I confront B about the allegations, she admits to them.

Then fast forward three weeks later, on Monday, one my sales leads comes up to me and tells me that the day before that employee B told employee A that she can't discuss speculating other people's sexuality, not to discuss politics, and talking about sex acts because that is sexual harassment. Then employee A comes up to me and tells me her concerns that employee B is massively overstepping. Employee B goes to two other sales associates and says on the sales floor that they shouldn't be discussing inappropriate topics on the sale floor, and she says this in front of customers. Everyone came up to me with concerns that they'll be written up for harassment, and I have to say to them that they won't and they have nothing to be afraid about because they haven't done or said anything wrong. I also add that everyone, except employee B, can discuss politics as long as they're in agreement, since they have the first amendement right.

Employee B is seriously overstepping her boundaries by ordering people because she isn't a sales lead and isn't a manager. I'm thinking to myself, do I have to write her up again to stop her from harassing her coworkers? I'm at the end of my rope with this associate. Should I fire her?
 
You say you are a store manager, implying that there is a corporate echelon above you.

You would be wise to get guidance from that level, either HR or the corporate attorney.

There is a lot of word vs word here on issues that can result in a seriously expensive lawsuit.

It's not something you should be taking on by yourself.
 
I also add that everyone, except employee B, can discuss politics as long as they're in agreement, since they have the first amendement right.
I have some news for you; first amendment right to free speech doesn't extend to private employment. It protects government employees and some other circumstances but, you can tell your private employees to keep their opinions to themselves while at work.
 
I'm just going to say that I don't think you've gone about this in the right way and would definitely speak with your HR department before doing anything further.
 
I spoke to my district manager, and he advised me what to do. However, I didn't agree with him about how to handle this employee. He just said to talk to her about not talking about religion and politics and not to fire or write her up. I disagree because I really want to fire her, so I wrote her up because I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. I did go to HR, and they basically gave me the same advice like my district manager. I don't agree with them. so I'm going to do it my way.
 
No, she hasn't. The write up is based on one conversation that occurred a year ago, and she has nothing prior since then. However, I want to write her up again for harassment because she's overstepping by ordering people not to have inappropriate conversations.
 
I don't see much of an issue with your writing her up again although I'd prefer you to be including HR in what you are doing. That's what they're for (at least in part) and they know how to go about it in ways that will not have adverse affects on the company better than you do. But if you really want to fire her with no external repercussions (I can't promise there will be no internal repercussions you'll want to have a lot more than a single year-old write up to support you.

She should, in a new write up, be presented with specifics: "Sally, on April 20 you were overheard discussing with Co-Worker Jeff topics that are inappropriate for work, and the same thing happened on May 10 with Assistant Manager Connie. If you believe your co-workers are talking inappropriately you should be reporting these conversations to me/Manager Jacqueline/Peter in HR. While I understand where you are coming from it is not for you to be reprimanding your co-workers. For consistency's sake such discussions should be going through HR so if it happens again, you will be disciplined up to and potentially including termination of employment. Sign here to signify that you understand what we've discussed". DO NOT tell her that she WILL be fired unless you have already discussed firing her with HR and gotten their okay - if they don't agree to fire hire on a new occasion all you've taught her is that she can do whatever she likes and there will be no repercussions. DO have another manager or an HR representative present to confirm what was said and who can sign to confirm it if Sally refuses to sign the write up.

I don't agree with your doing this on your own unless you've got HR's backing to be doing so but if you MUST do it as a DYI project at least do it the right way and maybe you can avoid being fired yourself.
 
Thanks for your reply. I just want to clarify. The write up isn't a year old. I just found out about this inappropriate conversation recently, and that conversation between three employees is a year old. I wanted to fire her without any prior writeups when that conversation took place, but my manager ruled against it.
 
And rightly so. There is a reason why best practice requires write ups before termination. You're digging a hole for yourself that could end up in YOUR termination.
 
A couple of reasons. Keep in mind that I am talking about your taking actions against the advice of HR, not if you have their backing.

1.) Insubordination, plain and simple
2.) By taking disciplinary action without following the same pattern of disciplinary actions that have been taking against others, you are setting the employer up for a discrimination claim.
3.) At will employment cuts both ways.
 
I actually committed insubordination already. I wrote up the employee for harassment, even though it didn't fit the legal definition of harassment and the company's code of conduct because I want to try to get her fired (unless you believe what was stated is harassment). This employee said that she thinks it's a bit weird to be gay and asked another associate if she believed in God. When I spoke to this associate about how inappropriate it is, she only admitted to the gay comment and stated that she never asked someone if they believed in God. The employee told me she just made a comment how she doesn't like people who claim to be religious that bully others are hypocrites.

I state to the employee that I don't believe her, that this is too much she-said-she-said, and I already wrote her up without getting her side. My manager told me not to write her up for this or fire her for this because it was one conversation between two employees and no one else and happened a year ago. He told me to just tell her to not have inappropriate conversations. However, my assistant warned me that just because your manager tells you to do something, you need to cover yourself, so my assistant suggested that I write up this employee because she believes this employee made people scared for their life to report her. I believe my assistant, and it's my employee's fault for making people scared to report her. I told my employees that they can bring up current and past concerns, even if the past concerns are over a 1+ years old. I will even take on something that happened 5 years ago and punish the person or people, whether the behavior is a one-off or it continues.
 
On your own head be it. If your employer or your HR department takes exception to your actions, there isn't any law that's going to save your job. By insisting on doing things your way instead of letting HR handle it, you could be setting the employer up for a lawsuit. If you get fired, just remember, you heard it here first.
 
I spoke to my district manager, and he advised me what to do. However, I didn't agree with him about how to handle this employee. He just said to talk to her about not talking about religion and politics and not to fire or write her up. I disagree because I really want to fire her, so I wrote her up because I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. I did go to HR, and they basically gave me the same advice like my district manager. I don't agree with them. so I'm going to do it my way.
So you went against your DM's advice? Honestly I'm not sure you could do this any worse.
 
No, she hasn't. The write up is based on one conversation that occurred a year ago, and she has nothing prior since then. However, I want to write her up again for harassment because she's overstepping by ordering people not to have inappropriate conversations.
Have you considered maybe she's just applying what she was told by you and warning others because she got in trouble?

You seem to have one answer that you want....and you aren't getting that.....
 
"because I want to try to get her fired"

you have an ulterior motive....

"I state to the employee that I don't believe her, that this is too much she-said-she-said, and I already wrote her up without getting her side. "

You handled this 100% incorrectly

"My manager told me not to write her up for this or fire her for this because it was one conversation between two employees and no one else and happened a year ago. He told me to just tell her to not have inappropriate conversations. However, my assistant warned me that just because your manager tells you to do something, you need to cover yourself, so my assistant suggested that I write up this employee because she believes this employee made people scared for their life to report her"

So you listened to your assistant rather than your manager?

"I will even take on something that happened 5 years ago and punish the person or people, whether the behavior is a one-off or it continues."

Just goes to prove you need to be retrained in management/harassment and HR procedures.

And honestly you are setting your employer up for a claim if you let others speak freely but not this one employee because you disagree with her thoughts/position/stance/religion/etc.
 
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