Biden drops out of the race.

[Tax Counsel]

You can spin it anyway you like and put words in my mouth that I didn't say or mean but, I was speaking from a practical point of view based on your saying you may vote for somebody that has no chance to win. That is simply a protest vote that has no bearing on the outcome of an election. And in a Presidental election, every vote counts. It should be about what is best for the Country even if you have to pick for the lesser of two evils. Not just about you and your vote.

You were implying that I would be wasting my vote (and thus shouldn't bother) if I vote for some alternative candidate. But it's not a complete waste. It wouldn't help Biden or Harris, but it would help the party I do vote for have an easier time in my state getting their candidates on the ballot next time around. So if I dislike both front runners and like a third party candidate more, then helping that candidate and his/her party is at least something constructive I can do.

Either Harris or Trump will be President after the election. If you like where the Country is headed under Biden-Harris, then vote Harris. If you want to change direction, vote Trump. That is your choice and that of every American.

Those are not my only two options. I may choose to vote for an alternative to them. You may not like who I vote for and I don't care whether you like the choice I make. But don't castigate me for exercising my constitutional right to vote for the candidate I like best. I have the same voting rights you do. If you vote Trump and he wins, I won't like it but I'll still respect your right to make the choice you did and respect the voters' choice.

Clearly I have little respect for Trump as a person, but that's a different matter and it goes back well before he declared his first bid for the presidency. Don't confuse that with my views of the people who vote for him. I grew up in deep red country and know a number of Trump supporters. They are by and large terrific people whom I like. They each believe that Trump is the best candidate and will lead us to something better. I agree with them on a lot of things, but I disagree with them about Trump.

Please don't preach to me about being a patriot or defending Democracy. I have served my Country, my State, and my community for my entire adult life in active political positions of authority. I will always defend the Constitution and the Rule-of-Law and the Republic against the people that want to tear it down.

I certainly didn't mean to "preach" to you and I apologize for giving you that impression. Your service is commendable and I've never criticized you for that.

But the text of your post that I quoted in my earlier reply quite clearly communicated to me that you believe that voters should only pick between the two major candidates and otherwise stay home. That's what I considered anti-democratic as that approach would deny me the choice to vote for whomever I think is best suited for the job. You served the country to defend the constitution, including the right of the public to vote for the person of his/her choice. That's awesome. However, when you then imply I shouldn't exercise that right in the manner I choose, that's not in the spirit of the constitution you defended and is, IMO, antidemocratic.

I support your right to vote for whomever you like. If you vote for Trump, for whatever reason, that's your perogative and I'm not going to attack you for your voting choices. I'd rather someone go out and vote for a candidate I don't like than not vote at all. The more who get out and vote the stronger our democratic tradition will be.

Everyone has the right to vote as he/she wishes even if it's clear before the election who the winner will be or that candidate the person does vote for has no real chance to win. Your earlier post indicated to me you don't fully believe in that principle.

 

[Tax Counsel]

If Trump wants to debate then he just needs to focus on the issues, but that will not be the case and it will be a cluster of points which make republicans look bad.

That I agree with 100%. I've said several times already that Trump hurts himself when he goes off script and just says whatever first pops into his head. He'd be a much more compelling candidate if he could just suppress the urge to do that. There is a saying that goes something like "it's not just what you say but also how you say it that matters". Even when Trump is talking about positions I support, I sometimes cringe because how he says it makes it seem bad. Every candidate has their weaknesses, and for Trump his problems when speaking off the cuff is perhaps his biggest campaign liability.

I'd love to see a presidential debate in which all candidates focused only on the issues and refrained from personal attacks. It would give voters a lot more useful information and avoid the media circus that results when the press centers in on the exchange of insults and derogatory comments. So far in my lifetime I can't recall an election in which debates didn't include at least some kind of personal insult or attack.

 

[welkin]

You were implying that I would be wasting my vote (and thus shouldn't bother) if I vote for some alternative candidate. But it's not a complete waste. It wouldn't help Biden or Harris, but it would help the party I do vote for have an easier time in my state getting their candidates on the ballot next time around. So if I dislike both front runners and like a third party candidate more, then helping that candidate and his/her party is at least something constructive I can do.



Those are not my only two options. I may choose to vote for an alternative to them. You may not like who I vote for and I don't care whether you like the choice I make. But don't castigate me for exercising my constitutional right to vote for the candidate I like best. I have the same voting rights you do. If you vote Trump and he wins, I won't like it but I'll still respect your right to make the choice you did and respect the voters' choice.

Clearly I have little respect for Trump as a person, but that's a different matter and it goes back well before he declared his first bid for the presidency. Don't confuse that with my views of the people who vote for him. I grew up in deep red country and know a number of Trump supporters. They are by and large terrific people whom I like. They each believe that Trump is the best candidate and will lead us to something better. I agree with them on a lot of things, but I disagree with them about Trump.



I certainly didn't mean to "preach" to you and I apologize for giving you that impression. Your service is commendable and I've never criticized you for that.

But the text of your post that I quoted in my earlier reply quite clearly communicated to me that you believe that voters should only pick between the two major candidates and otherwise stay home. That's what I considered anti-democratic as that approach would deny me the choice to vote for whomever I think is best suited for the job. You served the country to defend the constitution, including the right of the public to vote for the person of his/her choice. That's awesome. However, when you then imply I shouldn't exercise that right in the manner I choose, that's not in the spirit of the constitution you defended and is, IMO, antidemocratic.

I support your right to vote for whomever you like. If you vote for Trump, for whatever reason, that's your perogative and I'm not going to attack you for your voting choices. I'd rather someone go out and vote for a candidate I don't like than not vote at all. The more who get out and vote the stronger our democratic tradition will be.

Everyone has the right to vote as he/she wishes even if it's clear before the election who the winner will be or that candidate the person does vote for has no real chance to win. Your earlier post indicated to me you don't fully believe in that principle.

The argument I was making is an argument in logic, not in Democracy. Of course, I believe in every American citizen's right to vote for whoever they chose for whatever reason they chose. I think you know that. But you take the opportunity to again put words in my mouth and then pontificate what you think I believe. So, I'm not going to play this game with you anymore where you try to make me out to be something I am not. If you don't understand the logical argument that I was making, you are not someone that understand logic or you are purposely being obtuse to malign me.

You say that you are a registered Republican, yet you intensely dislike Trump and his former administration. As many times as I have asked why, you have never given one policy, or action that might lead you to your distain. The only conclusion I can come to is that it is somehow personal for you.

You have told us that you were employed by the IRS for many years as an auditor. Then you said you left the IRS and were employed by a tax law firm. Most recently, you have said you are self-employed.
Did you leave the IRS during the Trump administration?

It was a chaotic mess with a revolving door of officials coming in and then leaving not all that much later.

I found this to be a most telling comment from someone who was part of the government.

 

[Redemptionman]

The Trump haters mainly media created are buying into the threat to democracy and racist stuff propounded day and night by the MSM. My in laws (not wife) bought into it during COVID due to off the wall comments Trump made. From a policy standpoint Trump is vastly superior to the left and they can not win. The left gets him on (as I do myself) having diarrhea of the mouth. Trump tends to say things off cuff or try to be funny which he isn't then it is taken out of context. I get Trump and if you listen to ALL the words he says and not just snippets taken out of context then you will get what he is saying and it makes sense. Trump tends to speak in hyperbole while trying to make a point. This tends to come off as being nonsensitive or rash.

 

[welkin]

That I agree with 100%. I've said several times already that Trump hurts himself when he goes off script and just says whatever first pops into his head. He'd be a much more compelling candidate if he could just suppress the urge to do that. There is a saying that goes something like "it's not just what you say but also how you say it that matters". Even when Trump is talking about positions I support, I sometimes cringe because how he says it makes it seem bad. Every candidate has their weaknesses, and for Trump his problems when speaking off the cuff is perhaps his biggest campaign liability.

I'd love to see a presidential debate in which all candidates focused only on the issues and refrained from personal attacks. It would give voters a lot more useful information and avoid the media circus that results when the press centers in on the exchange of insults and derogatory comments. So far in my lifetime I can't recall an election in which debates didn't include at least some kind of personal insult or attack.

What is a personal attack in a debate? Is it spelling out a candidate's record over the course of their public career? Is it portraying the candidate as an extreme liberal? Are those personal attacks?

Harris can't hide from her past no matter how hard the media tries to reinvent her. The commercials are already out there about Harris's past. It's frightening.

If the Trump-Biden debate is any indication of how Trump will act, he will be reserved and on the issues. Not to worry.