Other Criminal Charges & Offenses Picketing in front of restaurant

fsn2 said:
But what if I were on that sidewalk and a group of people needed to walk past me and I stepped either onto the grass...
Click to expand...

It isn't about where you step. It is about where you remain without permission. I don't know about NY statutes, but here in CA you are not technically trespassing until you are asked to leave and fail to do so, regardless of any signs. Before you could get in trouble for trespass a representative of the business or law enforcement typically would first have to inform you that you are not welcome at the property. Sometimes this does happen when people are fired and escorted out by police. This really isn't your situation though. What you are doing sounds legal, but is a nuisance.

fsn2 said:
From a technically legal perspective, how much of a difference does it make if I am standing on the public sidewalk in front of their building versus standing next door on the public sidewalk of the next building over?
Click to expand...

It can be a huge difference as they can not claim you are obstructing their property and they can not make a trespass complaint for the neighbor. You would be in the same situation where police might try to persuade you to leave because they don't want to deal with silly disputes, but don't likely have enough to compel you to do anything. The farther away you get the less trouble you will have, and the less anyone will care.
 
unless the neighboring property owners and businesses care. It can affect them indirectly enough that they do care. They probably don't want the sign guy on their property either. (Used to do HR for a property management company and generally tenants and owners in most places are going to stick up for each other, not the guy holding the sign)
 
fsn2 said:
Hello.
Are my actions illegal or am I covered under the 1st Amendment?
Click to expand...

It's a crime only if you are violating some state or local ordinance in the process. The mostly likely risk is that you violate a local law that requires a permit or otherwise reasonably regulates expression of speech on public property. Of court if you do it on private property you risk being charged with trespass.

The other problem may be whatever content you put on your sign. If the content can be considered defamatory, you may end up being sued for that. There may be other statutes that you violate, too, if the information on the sign is factually inaccurate.

Personally, I think you are likely to be wasting your time in this action. Sure, you'll let the restaurant know you are mad at them. That might provoke a response you don't like, like a lawsuit. Even if you can win, you'll spend money defending the action. If your action gets some publicity, you may find that future employers or potential employers will see it and that would likely result in them either not hiring you, or already employed, firing you. Even if the restaurant doesn't strike back, what do you hope to achieve with this stunt? Will it really be worth your time walking in front of the place with a sign day after day? After all, most people are likely to simply ignore you as they pass by.
 
mightymoose said:
It isn't about where you step. It is about where you remain without permission. I don't know about NY statutes, but here in CA you are not technically trespassing until you are asked to leave and fail to do so, regardless of any signs. Before you could get in trouble for trespass a representative of the business or law enforcement typically would first have to inform you that you are not welcome at the property. Sometimes this does happen when people are fired and escorted out by police. This really isn't your situation though. What you are doing sounds legal, but is a nuisance.



It can be a huge difference as they can not claim you are obstructing their property and they can not make a trespass complaint for the neighbor. You would be in the same situation where police might try to persuade you to leave because they don't want to deal with silly disputes, but don't likely have enough to compel you to do anything. The farther away you get the less trouble you will have, and the less anyone will care.
Click to expand...

Thank you for answering. "Remaining without permission.
mightymoose said:
It isn't about where you step. It is about where you remain without permission. I don't know about NY statutes, but here in CA you are not technically trespassing until you are asked to leave and fail to do so, regardless of any signs. Before you could get in trouble for trespass a representative of the business or law enforcement typically would first have to inform you that you are not welcome at the property. Sometimes this does happen when people are fired and escorted out by police. This really isn't your situation though. What you are doing sounds legal, but is a nuisance.



It can be a huge difference as they can not claim you are obstructing their property and they can not make a trespass complaint for the neighbor. You would be in the same situation where police might try to persuade you to leave because they don't want to deal with silly disputes, but don't likely have enough to compel you to do anything. The farther away you get the less trouble you will have, and the less anyone will care.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your comments. If the establishment chooses to file a lawsuit against me, alleging that I am not allowed to be soliciting customers for my business by holding a sign that has my website printed on it, near or in front of their restaurant, and a trial date is set, how difficult (and how likely) would it be for them to get a "temporary injunction" against me whereby I can not "solicit business" near or in front of their restaurant?

Additionally, what kind of time frame would be involved with filing a suit against me and getting a potential temp injunction? For instance, if they file a suit today, and then file for a temp injunction once a trial date is set, is that something that could be accomplished in a week's time for both, or more like a month or longer? Thanks again.
 
Last edited:
fsn2 said:
...soliciting customers for my business by holding a sign that has my website printed on it, near or in front of their restaurant...
Click to expand...

If I saw you advertising you business in a manner in a way that was meant to do harm to another business I'd make a note to never try your business. I don't think I'm unique in that regard. You might do your business more harm than good with that tactic.
 
Highwayman said:
Not if he's out on the sidewalk.

If he interferes with pedestrian traffic or causes a ruckus he can be summonsed/arrested for disorderly conduct.
Click to expand...

I saw a homeless dude yesterday, dropped "trou", commenced DEFECATING on the sidewalk, I pulled over to be sure I was seeing what I saw, YES SIR, dude dropped three rocks, also urinated, didn't use Dude Wipes or Charmin, pulled up "trou", sauntered off to the local homeless dude/dudette camp.

I had never observed "carpet turding" on the sidewalk, I failed to record the event.

For the record, there is a local homeless camp.

I counted 30 tents.

They even have a "mess tent".

I'm told by the PD's "homeless liaison" that they defecate behind the vacant building that permits them to squat.
 
mightymoose said:
Your additional questions are things that will never happen. Don't sweat it.
Click to expand...

Thank you MM. For 'loitering' purposes, the place of establishment is a hamlet that stems from a larger town that is broken up into pieces (east, west, etc), all of which fall are located within a county.

Upon reading some case law, I see that in some places in the US that a number of "strict criteria" must be met for someone to be guilty of loitering; simply, it is not as simple as standing somewhere in public and you're guilty of loitering (at least not in the case I read). I definitely want to fully research 'loitering', regardless of whether I need to or not.

If there are no specific ordinances for this hamlet, or the town at large, then what law for loitering would apply, like a state law/ federal law/ statute?

Thank you very much for your help.
 
Last edited:
army judge said:
I saw a homeless dude yesterday, dropped "trou", commenced DEFECATING on the sidewalk, I pulled over to be sure I was seeing what I saw, YES SIR, dude dropped three rocks, also urinated, didn't use Dude Wipes or Charmin, pulled up "trou", sauntered off to the local homeless dude/dudette camp.

I had never observed "carpet turding" on the sidewalk, I failed to record the event.

For the record, there is a local homeless camp.

I counted 30 tents.

They even have a "mess tent".

I'm told by the PD's "homeless liaison" that they defecate behind the vacant building that permits them to squat.
Click to expand...
Welcome to (insert city here).
 
I live in a fairly small town and we don't have as bad a problem with homelessness as most bigger cities have, but we do have our fair share. Several years ago we found that some of the local homeless who hung out near our office building were using one of our elevators as a bathroom over a weekend. I can't imagine being the person who came in on a Monday morning, went to step into the elevator, and found that mess. :eek: I also can't imagine being the person who had to clean it up - at least if they go outside, you can hose it off!
 
fsn2 said:
If there are no specific ordinances for this hamlet, or the town at large, then what law for loitering would apply, like a state law/ federal law/ statute?
Click to expand...

There are no federal loitering laws that would apply unless you are in a federal facility or on federal land. But there well could be a state loitering act.
 
fsn2 said:
Thank you MM. For 'loitering' purposes, the place of establishment is a hamlet that stems from a larger town that is broken up into pieces (east, west, etc), all of which fall are located within a county.

Upon reading some case law, I see that in some places in the US that a number of "strict criteria" must be met for someone to be guilty of loitering; simply, it is not as simple as standing somewhere in public and you're guilty of loitering (at least not in the case I read). I definitely want to fully research 'loitering', regardless of whether I need to or not.

If there are no specific ordinances for this hamlet, or the town at large, then what law for loitering would apply, like a state law/ federal law/ statute?

Thank you very much for your help.
Click to expand...
Does it not occur to you just how dumb you're going to look when people see you with your ridiculous sign out in front of some place that fired you?
 
fsn2 said:
Thank you MM. For 'loitering' purposes, the place of establishment is a hamlet that stems from a larger town that is broken up into pieces (east, west, etc), all of which fall are located within a county.
Click to expand...

Hamlet "stems" from a town? What does THAT mean?

Hamlets are not political subdivisions and have no courts, government, laws, rules, or regulations.

A town is a town - towns are not broken up into "pieces". I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Highwayman said:
A town is a town - towns are not broken up into "pieces".
Click to expand...

It is possible that a town could have smaller subdivisions. A lot of people would say the same thing about cities, too, but for a great example of a city that has has smaller subdivisions look at New York city, with its various boroughs. It is not common, to be sure, but it could happen.
 
Examples of towns that have sub-divisions, neighborhoods, or hamlets, however you want to call them (locally we prefer neighborhoods although hamlet is not unknown):

Marshfield, Massachusetts - Wikipedia

Scituate, Massachusetts - Wikipedia

Duxbury, Massachusetts - Wikipedia (there's at least one neighborhood in Duxbury that is not listed in the article - Snug Harbor)

I'm quite willing to acknowledge that it's not common in other parts of the country but at least in southern MA, it's the norm.
 

Share this page

Get a free case review from a lawyer
Back
Top