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Remind me - what was this meeting to discuss? (It really does make a difference - I'll explain after you respond.)
 
ozmets said:
Am not sure if anyone can answer my 2 questions or if anyone can offer opinion or advise me what steps i need to take. Here's my questions. First i was denied today from my union rep to allow the shop steward of the store i work in to sit in during the meeting today. When i told the the shop steward i wanted him to sit in during the meeting the union rep said no he isn't because if you want him there then am not gonna be there. My question is that a breach of union rules? And what or who do i contact regarding that question i asked? Second question i have pretends to the start of the meeting it was my manager my union rep and 2 human resources personal in the office, as the meeting was about to start i took out my phone from my back pocket and my union rep said your not gonna record this meeting are you. It wasn't my intention to all i was doing was taking it out so i wouldn't be sitting on it. But i said yes why does anyone have any problem with me recording the meeting? And the head of personal said yes i do so i asked why? he said because if you do then this meeting is over. What should i have done or was there any breach of my rights to record the meeting as long as i asked before recording it? I know these questions most likely aren't legal but i was hoping someone would guide me to who or where i go from here? I know now that my union rep is not looking after my best interests. Thanks for any advice you may offer.
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If you are going to be cute or quarrelsome, it won't end well for you.
If you need people to help you be pleasant and courteous to them.
I'm afraid your recent actions may have made things worse for you.
You need to remain calm, be courteous, and don't try to bully anyone.
Its best, like I told you, to lay stupid and appear weak.
Tough guys get beat down, ozmets.
You're no tough guy, and they know that.
You're just a nice guy, upset about all of this (and who wouldn't be), so stop trying to break their chops.
Play nice, buddy.
 
I appreciate that judge but i have no course of action now other then to fight for my job because the meeting today ended me with being terminated and i have all the times they had and i had reasons for each question they asked and i have 2 employees who will say yes to my reason that they asked. Judge i thought for sure they had more then they had. I was shocked at the things they presented and i had answers to each and all i want is to get due process and my worry is my union isn't behind me.
 
The meeting was for the company to give the union the times of me stealing time. I had 3 days that they presented of me stealing time and i gave my reasons for all 3 days and can really say that i didn't take more time then they showed. All they show was me exiting and entering the store and the time i was out of it. Some of the times they have were me going to the restroom between 5 and 10 mins.
 
ozmets said:
The meeting was for the company to give the union the times of me stealing time. I had 3 days that they presented of me stealing time and i gave my reasons for all 3 days and can really say that i didn't take more time then they showed. All they show was me exiting and entering the store and the time i was out of it. Some of the times they have were me going to the restroom between 5 and 10 mins.
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Then you might want to talk to three or four local lawyers.
See what they advise.
In the meantime, look into how you go about retiring.
Unemployment might also be off the table now.
See what the lawyers advise, think about things, decide your next steps.

The union might be taking a neutral position, which means they're screwing you, too.

From now on forward, keep things to yourself, and share them only with a lawyer, if you retain one.
 
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Thanks judge and there's no doubt in my mind that the union didn't prevent this but assisted in it. My time is limited because the video they have only stays on file for 30 days and each day i lose a day. so its 3 weeks today and i don;t want to lose evidence that am gonna need to prove my case. I no am being railroaded and i can't trust my union rep. He told me when i mentioned a lawyer his reply was if i say lawyer again he will make me sign a waiver and let my lawyer take over . At this point i should of said ok. Between me and you and the wall they really didn't present anything that an neutral person would think being fired for what they presented. I was shocked to be honest. There's nothing that is stealing times. The head of personal said at the end it sounds like i had time to come up with excuses for the times they presented today to me.I had no idea what they were gonna show me today all i was going on was my work journal that i list each day. I know i can have this over turned if i get a grievance filed. And that's another thing my union rep is gonna say to me next that the union feels i don't have a chance to win it. I won't take that very well. I want someone to judge this who has no interest one way or the other.
 
Remind me - what was this meeting to discuss? (It really does make a difference - I'll explain after you respond.)[/QUOTE]

The meeting was for the company to give the union evidence for me being suspended.. It had 3 days that they presented of me stealing time and i gave my reasons for all 3 days and can really say that i didn't take more time then they showed. All they show was me exiting and entering the store and the time i was out of it. Some of the times they have were me going to the restroom between 5 and 10 mins.
 
How can they prove the video is authentic and hasn't been "doctored"?

You aren't required to prove anything.
They made the charges, they're required to prove their allegations.

Kangaroo court and modern day lynching.
 
they have times on camera recorded of me leaving and returning and i had to explain each one they presented to me and honestly judge i had legimate reasons for all of them and have 2 witnesses who said what i told them and i know a neutral person looking at the 3 days and my explaination would say they fired me for no good cause
 
all they showed me was video and times that i left and returned from outside and i didn't steal any time and he fired me for nothing other then that's what they were gonna do regardless of what i told them
 
Okay, that being the case, Weingarten was not invoked. Since it wasn't, you did not have the right to choose which union representative was present. As long as your rep was there, it was not your opt to insist on the shop steward as well (or instead of).

It was not your right to record the meeting regardless of Weingarten.
 
I guess hiring a lawyer is what am gonna do. i have no union helping me. I can this thru a grievance process. At least now i have all the things they fired me for. Known were worthy of being fired or even suspended for. i ain't settling for my union because they aren't doing what they should of been doing and that i know from being with them at the meetings.
 
How would we know what your union's rules are? It is not unusual in the least to limit your right to have representation to one person, not several. Whether or not your CBA stipulates this or not, we have no way of knowing. If the union rep is the one who is telling you this, odds are that is correct. You also have no right to record someone who does not wish to be recorded. This is true in every state.
 
It just shows my union rep not wanting my shop steward in the meeting for whatever reason. and them not wanting me to record the meeting that they dont want another witness to there lies at a grievence or a tape recording of there lies that there gonna say in the grievence and why wouldnt anyone allow either request unless there was a reason. Not saying either was my right but why wouldn't my union want another witness on my side...
 
Recordings can be manipulated. Happens not infrequently. It is also sounds like this was not an investigative meeting but rather a termination one. The reason most CBAs limit representation to one other person is that it takes away from that person's job to sit in on the meeting. Frankly your employer's job is to carry out business they need to conduct, not arrange your idea of a perfect set up in case you wish to grieve. You have a witness. That is all and perhaps more than you are entitled to in this case. Asking for the steward to take time away from his other duties to play second witness to a done deal is pointless and a waste of time.
 
I know for a fact that if i was properly represented from the day of the suspension i would of got back to work at the first meeting. There was and still isn't any reason that i was suspended for stealing time. All i did was take an hour lunch and not punching for it. It happens.. I work 5 3/4 hrs that day with 1hr of time. By 6 hrs into a shift most employees take there hour lunch and there 15 break. i had one hr from 1:40 to 2:40... is that stealing time? does that warrant a suspension? When you know your being fired for something that you shouldn't be but rather because they want to find something to stick well that stinks. the other day was 50 mins i said i took my break and then helped the cart guy push wagons for the 20 mins after my break. 2 employees can say yes i was pushing carts. one said to me when she was outside smoking why are you pushing carts and i said i do it sometimes just to help out. she told them in the meeting that yes she did see me. of course she couldn't remember what say it was but there's a camera outside that would show me pushing carts at that time but they didnt show that all they showed my leaving and entering. so that isnt stealing time in fact i still had another 15 min break that i never took that day. Its funny because i haven't taken a weeks vacation in 3 yrs and you know why? cause i save them time by leaving early and taking days off with there permission. I never worked a 40 hours in a week i used my vac time to make up for leaving early. so to be fired for stealing time really hurts. When your the person going through this you know it's being done to get you but i feel that they didn't get me because a person looking at all the facts will say he didn't steal time for the proof they showed. Just saying
 
Constantly leaving early isn't doing them any favors. They are entitled to feel that way. "Forgetting" to punch in and out is a legal and valid reason to terminate you. Not being in the store at the times they want for you to be in the store and performing the duties they want for you to be performing is a legal and valid reason to terminate you. Your employer sets your hours and duties, not you. While you think it was "helping" to be outside pushing around carts for an hour, that meant your duties inside were not being done and your employer did not know where you were. They should not have to track you down via video camera. The camera shows that during the times your employer was expecting you to be in the store and performing certain duties, you were not. Frankly they don't even need the video proof. Employers are not courts of law. Being argumentative and difficult is also a valid and legal reason to terminate you. You are doing yourself no favors here. Trying to look for a loophole or playing games with claiming a disability after the fact and arguing that you should have been allowed to choose your own duties when you wished are counter-productive. It is only going to serve to further justify your employer's position.
 
They ask us employess if we want to learly early. They are always trying to save hours when the store isn't busy. so it works for them and me. besides driving 65 miles each way to work, and taking care of my 78 yr old mom who recently lost her husband of 56 yrs i'd think i deserve a little consideration. there aware of my mom being in the hospital 3 times since may of this year. i drive past 15 other stores that they have when they could of transferred me to a store 2 miles from my home. so excuse me if i sound bitter but again i know what they did was intentional and maybe allowed but am hoping and praying that someone who has no opinion will see that it wasn't justified. I just thought someone here would see my problem and offer a solution that might help. Am not looking for answers for why am fired am seeking advice on how to go forward with a union who is in with my company and a short amount of time before my 30 days are up. Not meaning to sound angry to any of you but am angry as hell that i was fired for this
 
If you believe your union rights were violated, you are certainly free to talk to a lawyer or two.
 
Maybe not violated but i certainly wasn't represented in the way i should of. Off the record have you ever known someone was not helping you the right way but doing what was only necessary to not violate the my rights. Its hard to explain unless you knew what i meant. Sure they could fire me for anything and they did. Am not gonna except it without someone else deciding who isn't swayed one way or the other. Not sure how tht process works, never been fired in my life. And hopefully a reasonable person looks at there evidence and me arguing it. And rules in my favor. Hoping and praying i should say
 
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